Tories 28 points up in the polls

[Uter]

Do you not realise that politicians across all political persuassions across the world are tempted by the corruption of power. Be it sexual/financial or whatever etc. Robin Cook left his wife for his secretary/mistress, Peter Mandelson had multiple mortgages which he shouldn't have had and actually had to leave office twice for financial scandals! Two Jags had two shags, three houses, four games of croquet etc.

It is power that corrupts some politicians not political persuassion. Fortunately in Britain the corruption is relatively not too bad. In Africa it is corruption within the upper echelons of nearly all the governments that destroys nearly every country in the continent.

Don't interpret what I said as a defence of the labour party. I just think some people have short memories went it comes to the last Tory administration. Parkinson, Aitken, Hamilton, Mellor, Westminster council (Lady Porter?). These just from the top of my head.

I seem to recall a house price slump, a couple of recessions, a stock market crash and record unemplyment too.

Above all, for me, it wasn't their economic policy that made me angry. It was the hypocrisy of being lectured on family values by John Major, only for it to emerge he was having it away with Edwina Currie at the time!

Oh yes, and Jeffrey bloody Archer!

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Everything has changed since the days of the 1980s when there was a clearly determined split between the parties.

Labour, seeing that their policies were seen not just as unworkable (another debate entirely), they were also seen as being part of the enemy, the big bear looming to the east ready to blast us to smithereens before brain-washing us with their despicable Bolshevism.

So Labour changed and eventually got in. There is no way anyone can say sanely say that we have a Socialist government - no policy of mass re-nationalisation, no policy of full employment, no policy of enforced trade union membership etc. Apart from a few tweaks to financial policy (minimum wage), there is hardly anything Labour have done that, without the benefit of hindsight, a Tory Party in office wouldn't have done.

The party in power really ought to be the party who retains power, holding all the cards as they ought to, and that any general election is theirs to lose, rather than the opposition's to win. Cameron's best policy for getting in is to keep his trap shut and let Labour implode. However, once he does get in - assuming this is the case - he had better come up with some credible policies fast, or he'll find that he too would end up a one-hit wonder.

Now, Westminster politics is little more than a marketing exercise between two teams of babbling ad-men.

Very true about not having a socialist government, but try telling that to a number of the right wing posters on this message board. They seem to think that New Labour is left wing!
Over the last few years and after what Blair and Brown have done I feel that I am in a political desert and really have no party that I could now vote for in a General Election.

The Labour Party and the Conservative Party have become like the Democrats and Republicans in the States, no real difference between them.
The 80's may have been bad in this country with many people hating Thatcher and Kinnock, but at least you could tell the difference with their policies and make an informed choice on how to vote.

I wonder what would have happened if John Smith had stayed alive?

 

[London Calling]

Very true about not having a socialist government, but try telling that to a number of the right wing posters on this message board. They seem to think that New Labour is left wing!
Over the last few years and after what Blair and Brown have done I feel that I am in a political desert and really have no party that I could now vote for in a General Election.

The Labour Party and the Conservative Party have become like the Democrats and Republicans in the States, no real difference between them.
The 80's may have been bad in this country with many people hating Thatcher and Kinnock, but at least you could tell the difference with their policies and make an informed choice on how to vote.

I wonder what would have happened if John Smith had stayed alive?

Only with PP, will be start getting alternative parties and I believe, more people turning to the polls. As I often quote on here in Denmark PP gets 90% turnout.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

As someone who can remember all too well the last Tory government and the seemingly endless succession of scandals, cut-backs, under-investment etc I can't say I'm looking forward to them being in power again.

Personally I just want to see someone in power who is prepared to invest in transport. I was confident labour would, but they haven't delivered enough in this area for me. Mrs Thatcher wanted to rip up the railways and replace them with roads for fecks sake. How progressive!

Couldn't agree with your sentiments anymore.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

If aliens landed in London today they would still think the Tories were still in power and Maggie was a rejuvenated female to male transexual.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Only with PP, will be start getting alternative parties and I believe, more people turning to the polls. As I often quote on here in Denmark PP gets 90% turnout.

I agree with PR or PP as you call it. What is PP?
I think we should have PR here and also have an option on all voting slips for "Non Of The Above".
Then the politicians might actually realise how disliked they all are!

 

[CHAPPERS]

I really REALLY don't want that smarmy know it all **** Cameron running the show, imagine how we'll look to the rest of the world. Mind you, Brown isn't a lot better and don't even get me started on Clegg.

Are there any politicians out there that don't come across as complete fools?

 

[simmo]

Don't interpret what I said as a defence of the labour party. I just think some people have short memories went it comes to the last Tory administration. Parkinson, Aitken, Hamilton, Mellor, Westminster council (Lady Porter?). These just from the top of my head.

I seem to recall a house price slump, a couple of recessions, a stock market crash and record unemplyment too.

Above all, for me, it wasn't their economic policy that made me angry. It was the hypocrisy of being lectured on family values by John Major, only for it to emerge he was having it away with Edwina Currie at the time!

Oh yes, and Jeffrey bloody Archer!

I agree with all the scandals that you list however my argument is that it is power that corrupted these people not their political persuassion and it does so throughout the world across all political persuassions.

It is not a Tory is morally bad, Labour is morally good argument as your original post seemed to suggest to me. Labour are just as bad as the Tories. You may perceive that there were more Tory scandals but they were in power 7 years longer than Labour have been. Also because of your own political leanings you may not choose to see Labour's scandals e.g ex-premier's wife Cherie Blair and her dodgy mortgages, speeches for extortionate fees etc. do you not think her husband knew about these?

 

[London Calling]

I agree with PR or PP as you call it. What is PP?
I think we should have PR here and also have an option on all voting slips for "Non Of The Above".
Then the politicians might actually realise how disliked they all are!

typo's sorry.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

It is true what simmo says, power corrupts politicians from all political persuasions.
I would however rather have a corrupt left wing government than a corrupt right wing government, because it is my firm belief now that all governments eventually become corrupt.

 

[Simster]

I really REALLY don't want that smarmy know it all **** Cameron running the show, imagine how we'll look to the rest of the world. Mind you, Brown isn't a lot better and don't even get me started on Clegg.

Are there any politicians out there that don't come across as complete fools?

That really is the problem for those of us in the centre of the political spectrum. Depressing isn't it?

I don't want to vote for any of the current crock of shit on offer.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

That really is the problem for those of us in the centre of the political spectrum. Depressing isn't it?

I don't want to vote for any of the current crock of shit on offer.

I am on the left of the political spectrum and it is a problem for me too, all of them are utter wankers.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Maybe if Obama loses to that old geezer in America he can come and be King of Parliament instead?

 

[London Calling]

I am on the left of the political spectrum and it is a problem for me too, all of them are utter wankers.

This is what I like about the Danish system for example:

A Social Democrats (Socialdemokraterne) The party's former name, "Socialdemokratiet", is still frequently used.
B Danish Social Liberal Party (Det Radikale Venstre)
C Conservative People's Party (Det Konservative Folkeparti)
F Socialist People's Party (Socialistisk Folkeparti)
O Danish People's Party (Dansk Folkeparti)
V Venstre (Formal name: "Venstre, Danmarks liberale parti") (Venstre, Denmark's Liberal Party).[1]
Y New Alliance (Ny Alliance) A right-leaning social liberal party
Ø Red-Green Alliance (Enhedslisten) originally an alliance of Communist Party of Denmark (Danmarks Kommunistiske Parti), Socialist Workers' Party (Denmark) (Socialistisk Arbejderparti) and the Left Socialists (Venstresocialisterne).

Look at all of those socialist parties and in a country, most people would say has a balanced liberal outlook.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Cameron. Smooth, suave, good looking, sophisticated and privately educated. I could not think of a better leader for this great country.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Cameron. Smooth, suave, good looking, sophisticated and privately educated. I could not think of a better leader for this great country.

Bender!

 

[withdeanwombat]

" the bad old days "

What the hell is it now then ?.

Well,certainly better on the whole than the society splitting days of the fete opener,and the major days of interest rates rising so fast and so high that folk other than bankers and mortgage brokers feared for the next hour and their jobs.When unemployment rose above 3m,when a foreign excursion was manipulated NOT by the US of A,but by the stuttering foreign policy of a bankrupt government here.

Its better than that,even if the equilibrium has been upset by grasping financiers gambling on the dodgy end of the borrowing/lending spectrum,losing,and bringing grief to many,including,justly,themselves.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

....of a bankrupt government here.

Why was Britain in such a state of turmoil? Could it be that we had to change our own fortunes as a nation or for a better word evolve, after the Conservatives inherited a country on it's knees?

Bender!

:yahoo: I did not expect such an early response to that.

 

[phil1977]

Oh, for goodness sake. It's a crappy NSP in-joke. If you knew anything about me or my background, you'd know that I make jokes about most things. Even about topics I care passionately about. Don't read too much into it, honestly. It's just my puerile and childish sense of humour.

Ok, point taken!!

 

[Uter]

I agree with all the scandals that you list however my argument is that it is power that corrupted these people not their political persuassion and it does so throughout the world across all political persuassions.

It is not a Tory is morally bad, Labour is morally good argument as your original post seemed to suggest to me. Labour are just as bad as the Tories. You may perceive that there were more Tory scandals but they were in power 7 years longer than Labour have been. Also because of your own political leanings you may not choose to see Labour's scandals e.g ex-premier's wife Cherie Blair and her dodgy mortgages, speeches for extortionate fees etc. do you not think her husband knew about these?

Actually I agree. I'm sure most politicians are honest and well meaning, however as you say some succomb to temptation. The Conservatives were in power during my formative years so I remember them well. I'm certainly not going to pretend Labour are any better (or worse).

Interestingly (to me at least) there is a phrase to describe the effect you mention in your last sentence. Annoyingly I can't remember what it is called. It basically says that given two pieces of conflicting evidence, people tend to give greater weight to the one that reinforces their own pre-exisiting belief.

For instance, there are frequently studies in the media claiming to quantify the value of immigrants in Britain, which often present opposite conclusions. Someone who is supportive of immigration is likely to ignore studies that conclude immigration is detrimental to the country and remember the ones that conclude immigration is a positive thing. Whereas someone who has a deep held anti-immigration opinion will do the opposite.

I think we all like to think we are fair and objective, but in reality we all probably all guilty of being stubborn and subjective to a greater or lesser degree.

I guess this explains why people tend to buy newspapers that reinforce their political leanings and why no one ever seems to change their opinion, especially on political matters.