Time for a supporters trust ?

[Dave the OAP]

MM - I would put myself forward for this anytime at all as I have the utmost repect for the views of all fans, not just the "DK is God and can do no wrong" brigade but also the views expressed by Mr popkins.( devoting time would be a problem though)

I was not very impressed with MP last night at half time when he went off on one about Baker.

there are many people in the Brighton and Hove connurbation who do not give two hoots about Brghton and HA who would have laughed at the appeal made by DK on monday. there are many many people who still think it is our fault that Archer sold the ground!!!

BUT DO/3gulls, the supporters club is surely the mouthpiece of the club to the fans. It is up to them to change the views of the supporters about their clikkyness.

if we are not careful this civil war will tear the club apart even further.

 

[3gulls]

BUT DO/3gulls, the supporters club is surely the mouthpiece of the club to the fans. It is up to them to change the views of the supporters about their clikkyness.

if we are not careful this civil war will tear the club apart even further.

I am very sorry, but in my opinion, the Supporters Club are synonomus with Dick Knight and the Board. To represent the fans, the Trust would need to be seen as totally independent.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Don't confuse two separate issues.

If there was a Supporters' Trust, it would need to be a properly structured organisation in its own right. Running the Trust is a very complex business and it is quite separate from the issue of having a supporters' representative on the Board of the Football Club.

Look at York City ...

What is the Trust?

The Trust is formally called "The York City Supporters Society Limited".

It is registered with the Registry of Friendly Societies. You will know it as York City Supporters' Trust - it's more common name.

For those of you that are interested, it is Registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies Acts 1965 -1978. Registration number 29345R.

It has a set of 121 Rules (the "Constitution" or "Model Rules" drawn up for us by Cobbetts, solicitors of Manchester) and these give strict guidance to the way it is run. The Registry has approved these Rules and the Registry must also approve any changes. And they will not allow any changes that weaken the principles of the Trust.

The most important of the Rules are these:

It exists for the benefit of its members
It must be inclusive so that anyone who cares about the club can join
Any money it receives can only be used toward achieving its aims
It is democratic - one member gets one vote no matter how much money they give
There can be no changes to these principles unless the members as a whole vote for it (in practice this means they will not change).

The Trust has not been set up to replace existing supporters clubs and organisations. But to be an 'umbrella' group where there all such bodies can work together with individual supporters to bring the club closer to the community.

How is the Trust run?
Sub - committees / working parties

There is always far more work to be done than 12-15 people could ever hope to achieve. So there are a number of sub-committees or working parties formed to get on with the main activities of the Trust.

The constitution requires a Board Member to Chair each sub-committee to maintain a link to the centre.

But each sub-committee relies wholly on the help of members to get the job done.

The sub-committees formed to date are

Business
Community/Fundraising/Marketing
Membership
P.R
Logistics
To find out more about these and how you can help please contact the relevant elected member

This is a great way to get involved in the work of the Trust and make a real contribution to its success.

What's in it for you?
The Trust exists for the benefit of its members - you!

The aims of the Trust are all about the well being of the club, bringing it closer to the community of York and District and helping the development of young footballers in the area.

By supporting the Trust you support these ideals.

Any money you contribute will help the Trust achieve its aims and all monies will only ever be used for the betterment of York City Football Club

The cost of running the Trust will be kept to a minimum and will be met from a proportion of the membership fees.

Further information:- www.ycst.org.uk

 

[Morgans Mullet]

The Notts County Supportes Trust - see http://www.nottscotrust.org.uk/ is a good example of what could/should be done.

 

[clapham_gull]

To be honest with you, I know nothing about supporters trusts other than a lot of other clubs seem to have them.

I was trying to push out an idea about how the supporters could have a concrete stake in the club, seeing that we are now being asked to send direct funds.

I was convinced last night by Martin Perry of the need to send funds to the club AND I WILL.

I would also point out the obvious - that we are unique in having probably the most respected chairman of ANY football league club.

The man is a hero is my eyes.

I would also love to buy shares in the club but this is unlikely to happen in the short term.

I suggested a supporters trust because I felt that it was something that we could collectively be a member of and that in turn had representation on the board and shares.

Something to maintain unity in the future and something in response to counteract the somewhat negative reaction that I experienced around me at the game last night.

I admit I have no idea how this would work in practice.

Maybe this isn't the time now - We have much more pressing things to worry about - raising some cach and getting a new stadium. However, looking at the response on here it definately something that people have been thinking about for a while.

Forgetting Falmer for a moment - the success of the "Ask The Club" on here has shown that a lot of people have ideas about certain things but don't have the mechanism to contact the club other than sending the odd email or the infrequent fans forums.

There is also a lot of very boring things that I'd like to ask the club about that would waste time at the forum and really aren't the remit of the wonderful and committed Falmer For All people.

I'd like a travel service that block booked rail tickets, found out about timetables etc.. in advance for those of us who like to go to away games by train. I'd pay for it on top of the Away Member Scheme.

Isn't this something that supporters club could be doing ? Do they already ? I just don't know..

 

[Le Premier Cru]

I could do it then. I'm well seperated and I hate the Albion if truth be told.

Sounds almost perfect. Do you take bribes, as well?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The Notts County Supportes Trust - see http://www.nottscotrust.org.uk/ is a good example of what could/should be done.

Agreed, MM.

They have 1,500 members and quite a structure:-

Chair
Vice-chair
Treasurer
Secretary
Administration Co-ordinator
Public Relations Co-ordinator
Membership Recruitment & Retention Co-ordinator
Commercial & Corporate Membership Co-ordinator
Legal Officer
Fund Raising Co-ordinator
Three other Trust Board members

The Legal Officer is the Trust's representative on the Board of Notts County Football Club.

Membership costs £10 a year, with discounts for junior members and members over 65. Life membership is £100. Corporate membership is £250 a year.

Like York City, they are formally registered as an Industrial and Provident Society. They raised £130,000 in their first six months.

They are run by a main Trust Board and Five Sub-Committees that meet regularly. Elections to the Trust Board are organised by the Electoral Reform Society.

All Trust Board members have received training from the Midlands Co-operative Society and Supporters Direct, the national association of football supporters' trusts.

 

[ac gull]

Setting up a trust with a similar stucture to Notts County would look like a good idea to me as well.

To answer Dick Knights point to Atilla that it is too long term:

The supporters trust will not stop anyone who has no problem giving money direct to the club now

It will however capture all the cash that people are not comfortable giveing direct to the club as they want to "feel" it is going to an independent, democratic body that enables them to have a say in the running of the club in the long term

Personally I will give both direct to the club and to a supporters trust when set up; I would prefer in the long term to be donating to a supporters trust for all the above reasons

Does anyone have contact details for Lynn Mullo at Leicester as I think she was involved in the setting up of their trust? she used to be on the internet seagulls mailing list?

To me the supporters trust should aim to own at least 5% of the clubs shares within a year.

Assuming the £7m put into the club by the directors and shareholders is £5m shares and £2m loans WE WOULD NEED TO RAISE £262,500 FOR A 5% STAKE IF OTHER SHAREHOLDERS AGREE TO DILUTE THEIR HOLDINGS.

The total share capital would be £5.25m with the £262,500 representing 5% of this.

To save time the trust could legally "loan" funds to the club in the short term with the agreement being that once we raise the £262,500 we then convert the "loan" to a shareholding

Anyone know any albion fan solicitors who could do all the legal stuff for free

I could help with the finance side as am qualified in that area

 

[Lord Bracknell]

with all due respect LB you are one of the fellows I consider to be too close to the club to be independant.

I don't have a problem with you thinking this, mm. But I like to think that, as a supporter, I am independent.

I attend Falmer For All meetings and I gave evidence at the Public Inquiry. Neither of those things makes me a representative of the football club.

As someone involved at the fringes of FFA, I've had the occasional opportunity to be involved in discussion and debate with Dick Knight and Martin Perry. Does that mean losing independence? I don't think so.

FFA had a meeting last week, and DK outlined his plans to launch the Appeal. My initial reaction was to ask him whether he'd considered the possibility that there would be a significant degree of scepticism, even hostility, from some Albion fans - who would want to know whether the current Board had the resources to keep the Club going. Does raising that sort of question make me "too close to the club to be independent". Personally, I don't think so.

But if you think differently, I'm not going to argue.

Incidentally, there's nothing to stop anyone getting involved in FFA activities. Just make yourself known - by responding to the invitation to help that's been stuck at the top of NSC for the past week or so.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Anyone know any albion fan solicitors who could do all the legal stuff for free?

There's a question!

[*BAD CONFESSION TIME*]

At the Public Inquiry, I had plenty of opportunities to hang around on the doorstep, talking to fellow smokers who were involved in the Inquiry. One of these was Charlie Hopkins, the solicitor for Falmer Parish Council.



He turned out to be a supporter of Newport County, which - as some people on NSC will know - is the team I supported as a child, when I lived in Newport.

Charlie Hopkins had been involved in providing the legal advice to the Newport County Supporters Trust that had been involved in bringing the football club back to life, after it had been forced into bankruptcy when they lost their ground and were forced to play home matches 50 miles away (a familiar story?)

Yes ... decent legal advice is essential if a Trust is to be set up.

Fortunately, we won't have to use Charlie Hopkins. Supporters Direct, the national federation of supporters' trusts, has done an amazing amount of work that can simplify the processes - they have drawn up some model rules, for example, which, if adopted, can lead to instant registration as an Industrial & Provident Society. Plus loads more helpful advice.

http://www.supporters-direct.org/

 

[ac gull]

So did you find out anything useful from old Charlie to help the club at the next stage of the enquiry? Like the Falmer Parish councils preferred site is anywhere but Falmer!!!

Thought for a moment you were going to recommend him to set up a BHA suppoters trust

Understand why you would think people should see you as independent but the fact that others may think otherwise to me is just a factor to bear in mind for why many people would prefer to give to a supporters trust

Don't take it personally as is not meant in that way at all

As you say there is nothing to stop anyone joining the Falmer For All Team ths same as there should be nothing to stop anyone joining say the supporters club or a supporters trust

If a supporters trust had been set up say three years ago how much would it have raised by now?

I'm just glad Peter Taylor left when he did; if we had followed his budgetary advice we would probably be about £12m short by now

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Cheers for that ac gull.

My point about "independence" is that a properly organised Supporters' Trust would have to have an elected Board and some sort of committee structure, formal rules and so on - simply because it would be handling lots of money.

A Trust would also have to work closely with the Club.

Inevitably, the people who led it would very quickly be seen as being "too close to the Club" by those moaners who always like to throw that accusation at people who get involved.

We've conducted most of our campaigns over the past ten years in a spirit of effective anarchy. Anyone can play. And thousands have.

They've been amazingly successful campaigns. I worry that we'll lose the momentum, if things becoming too structured.

 

[clapham_gull]

Cheers for that ac gull.

My point about "independence" is that a properly organised Supporters' Trust would have to have an elected Board and some sort of committee structure, formal rules and so on - simply because it would be handling lots of money.

A Trust would also have to work closely with the Club.

Inevitably, the people who led it would very quickly be seen as being "too close to the Club" by those moaners who always like to throw that accusation at people who get involved.

We've conducted most of our campaigns over the past ten years in a spirit of effective anarchy. Anyone can play. And thousands have.

They've been amazingly successful campaigns. I worry that we'll lose the momentum, if things becoming too structured.

I think he has a point.

 

[rool]

Cheers for that ac gull.


A Trust would also have to work closely with the Club.

Inevitably, the people who led it would very quickly be seen as being "too close to the Club" by those moaners who always like to throw that accusation at people who get involved.

It seems that the interest in this has wained fairly quickly but if wanting someone to run a trust who is not too close to the club and who won't just give the money over without valid and substantiated reasons is considered as moaning then feck it, basically

 

[Lord Bracknell]

That's NOT what I'm saying, munster monch.

I'm simply saying that, even if the Trust was "run" by people who at the moment have no relationship whatsoever with the club's directors, within a short time they would have to develop one and they'd then be seen by some people (the perpetual moaners) as being "too close to the club".

Besides which, a Trust would have to be a democratic organisation, open to all Albion fans. That would guarantee that it was run by people who got voted into office, not necessarily the people who decided to set it up.

Since most fans back the Board, my guess is that the membership of any Supporters' Trust would end up voting for people who also back the Board - including people who have been characterised as the so-called "usual suspects".

Do I take it that your position remains "then feck it"?

 

[rool]

If it was a genuine democracy and people were not self appointed then no

I'd just like to add though it is possible to back the board but not be influenced by them

 

[Brovion]

I agree with Lord B (to a large extent). A supporters' trust could be run by FG, Ernest, Charlies Shinpad and BensGrandad and within a week they'd be posts saying they were 'too close' to the club and BTW has anyone heard these rumors of financial impropriety?

I think there is room for the formal and anarchic approaches - but I'm still in favor of an S.T.

 

[Verily I Say Unto Thee]

Bounce.

I believe this is an important issue which should be kept at the top of the agenda.

Contrary to the views of the club I feel this is EXACTLY the right time to think about a Supporters' Trust. The relationship between the fans and the club is good but at the same time there is a cause to rally round.

I think an independent trust could raise far more money through contributions from individual fans than club is likely to get by simply begging for it, and many on this thread seem to concur. This could give the club the 'Mystery Millionaire Investor' everyone is looking for whilst at the same time giving the fans the chance to invest in the club without the overheads of a share issue.

It WILL give a voice to some of the anti-Knight brigade but there is no reason this should be divisive. If the trust is made up of a true cross-section of fans, its democratic nature will hopefully make the likes of FG and Ernest realise that they really are in a very tiny minority.