The Right Honourable The Baroness Thatcher LG OM PC FRS lives... Hurrah!

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Maggies a legend 2nd in modern times only to Churchill,she will get a great send off and i will be there

Ohhhh Yussss (nods head)

 

[Elvis]

Ah! A challenge, excellent. You start with a personal comment that I am not a 'sensible' historian. It is the role of historians to challenge, to shine a light, to sift through all the debris and find the truth no matter the distractions. I have made a very good living doing so and my analysis has to be correct or it can be personally costly ...that means out of the window goes dogma. Surely that's only for football fans.
You have chosen to examine the 1987 'Big Bang' . Historians always search for causes and consequences. What is happening now will have a root, the skill is to trace it. The current financial crisis rests in 1987. You know its like ripples in a pond. The stone was thrown in, 1987 and the ripples turned into an economic Tsunami, but it took time, it is rarely instant (e.g Entente Cordiale 1904 took until 1914 to reach its conclusion). The financial restrictions on banks had been put in place during the course of the 1930's by a National Government dealing with a crisis not too dissimilar to now. Restrictions on currency and lending were strictly maintained but Mrs T was set on shifting our economy to one of service rather than manufacturing. In part this emerged from her desire to destroy union power. She never forgot or forgave the teachers for 'Thatcher, Thatcher the milk snatcher'. What do they say about a woman scorned?
So Big Bang and removal of restrictions. This enabled greater investment and at first it seemed a success. Loans would become easy, the time of irresponsibility had begun. You are correct to say this continued once Blair came to power. He admired Thatcher and he and his Chancellor could not see the problem. They got cosy with the Tory media (Particularly the King maker Murdoch) and got into bed with the city. As Brown reflected in 2011, his biggest error in office was not to see that he needed to reverse the 1987 legislation. You are again correct to say he indeed added to it....big error and his arrogance stretch to saying boom and bust was a thing of the past. Looking at the debt situation it appears that this was in balance until 2008. The moment the chickens came home to roost. In the states so many unsustainable loans had been made, they could not be paid back. Our banks had lent to their banks without restriction and it unravelled. Dilemma for whoever was in power. In fact the opposition were consulted and it was decided to save the banks. The cost of this almost matches the increased debt mountain. The prudence Brown had shown up to 2008 was blow away. A future debate will exist on this point should they have let the banks collapse or as they decided bail them out. The error was Thatchers but she was aided by those who failed to act, step forward Major, Blair and Brown. If good men fail to act then they are as culpable.
The current deficit would in reality have been the same whatever party were in office as they all accepted the Thatcher way. So we come full circle. Much will lay at the door of Thatcher. It matters not that she was a Tory because whatever colour she wore she would have created havoc...she did.
Finally Mrs T Matches with Mr H
Mrs T
Dictator 'A majority of one', as she would often say. She ruled her cabinet absolutely, opposition were removed (sacked) and politically destroyed.
Mr H
Total control of his cabinet, removal of opposition destroyed politically or actually.

Controls media Mrs T Kept tight allies in the Tory Media.Brainwashing techniques (some people still think she was great PM!) Staged conferences. Banned books (Spy catcher) Stopped History teaching in schools for nearly two years (she was worried how history would interpret her)
Mr H Tight control and use of Propaganda, Burnt what he felt were inappropriate books. Only allowed his doctrine in schools

Singled out groups in society for alternative treatment Mrs T near doubling of wages of Police and Military whilst declaring war on Union members. Shifted unemployed to invalidity benefit to avoid the embarrassment of higher unemployment figures (Note Saatchi and Saatchi campaign) Poll Tax impacted poorest, advantage to wealthy.
Mr H Infamously the Jews but he started on the Disabled, as well union members and socialists.

Thought they would go on for ever. Mrs T Totally convince she was a Boudicca of Britain. Founder of a political dynasty that would crush Socialism forever.
Mr H Thought the Third Reich Would last a thousand years.

Transport Mrs T Mrs spent money on developing Motorways (M25) Was that a good or bad thing?
Mr H Introduced Autobahns and those lovely people's car VW

Cuts Mrs T NHS, Education well anything state run. Cost to me my nearest and dearest life.
Mr H Went for growth and Europe wide expansion apparently.

Youth Organisation Mrs T Young Conservatives
Mr H Hitler Youth

THE MOST RIDICULOUS POST I HAVE READ ON NSC ( and christ I've read some shit)

 

[ALBION28]

Are you mad. Are you seriously comparing Thatcher to Hitler? Or is this a

Controls the media, what the Guardian for example was shut down was it? Ben Elton/Billy Bragg etc. shot where they? Opposition leaders like Neil Kinnock, Michael Foot, David Steel, David Owen sent to concentration camps like German anti nazi's were in 1933.

How the hell do you know what she was like in cabinet? You speak like you have first hand experience. Which portfolio did you hold? Pray tell.

I can't be bothered to go through each point it is painful. You just make assumptions and accusations in there that are the thoughts of someone whom has too much time on their hands and through all your madness, you still have not answered my original question.

Forget all your blinkered bile, whom is more culpable for the present economic situation we as a country face in 2012 Gordon Brown (Chancellor 1997-2007, PM 2007-2010) or Maggie Thatcher (PM 1979-1990). You waffle on about Brown should have done this, Tories would have done the same blah, blah, assumptions assumption, could have, should have, would have. It is all BS, what did Brown actually do, is the thing that matters and whom is more to blame, Thatcher or Brown for the state of the country's finances in 2012.

Sorry simmo been ill not near NSC or a computer come to that so could not respond. You obviously enjoyed my Mrs T Mr H links.
Lets see, you picked out controls the media point. No the Guardian was not shut down. It remained a voice for the left of centre throughout that time but could not claim a mass readership and so your point is? You think the small voices were heard at that time? You could have picked Daily Mirror. Now lets look at the Tory media, Times,Express,Sun, Daily Mail, Observer etc The point here is that had maximum control and influence holding the majority of readership, no internet in those days. The key publication was the Sun. Its support for Mrs Thatcher started in 1979 it was crucial. It is why Blair had to get it back on side otherwise he would have not made Prime minister. Kinnock failed to do so and paid the price.
How the hell do I know?I was Lucky or is that unlucky enough to know people close to the pulse at that time.
You write assumptions and accusations actually observations and interpretation but hey you know its all just opinions. You consider my views 'bile' whilst I would considered yours bigoted so clearly we will not agree.
In dealing with your point about our current economic situation and who to blame . I have covered this. Simply put Mrs Thatcher's deregulation 1987 is the root cause. All those that followed did not reverse this but enhanced it. They are also responsible or is that irresponsible. Whilst recovering I watched a programme on the seventies the historian on this concluded that we are still under the influence of those Thatcher decisions, what a surprise.
Before I finish I would like to add the worst of those influences of Thatcher was on Education. The effect is still here and unlike the economic story there is no sign of change. The consequences are dire for the population of this country. The changes to curriculum, weakening of qualifications, ditching of practical skills and calling everything a University has so diluted our academic standards that businesses actively seek to import a skilled workforce rather than source locally.
You are clearly not into debating so best stick to what we have in common, the Albion. All the best.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Don't forget to save all the flags and bunting from the Diamond Jubilee so you wont have to fork out again for the street parties when Maggie croaks.

 

[tangfastic]

there's still time to pre-.order you chumbawumba ep 'in memorium margaret thatcher'. only available if ordered before the witch dies.