TomandJerry
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- Oct 1, 2013
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- #21
Majority of shadow cabinet (16 of 31) now opposed to air strikes.
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The Official Match Thread: Syrian air strikes
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,329
bit late for that after encouraging it.
TomandJerry
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- Oct 1, 2013
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- #23
"11 Tories have so far confirmed they will vote against the govt tonight"
Don Quixote
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- Nov 4, 2008
- 8,355
Benn is making a good point I think here. Corbyn looks pretty angry.
TomandJerry
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- #25
Benn says there is now a clear and unambiguous UN security council resolution. It calls on member states to take all necessary measures to tackle Isis.
So the UN is asking us to act now, he says.
And it was a Labour government that helped to found the UN. Why? Because it wanted the nations of the world to work together.
Given that the UN has passed this resolution, why would we not support it, he asks.
So the UN is asking us to act now, he says.
And it was a Labour government that helped to found the UN. Why? Because it wanted the nations of the world to work together.
Given that the UN has passed this resolution, why would we not support it, he asks.
TomandJerry
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Benn says Syrian refugees just want to go home.
He lists some of the human rights abuses committed by Isis (or Daesh as he calls them), and he lists some of the terrorist attacks for which they are responsible.
Can we really leave it to others to defend our national security?
If we don’t act, what message will that send, he says.
He says President Hollande is leader of Labour’s sister socialist party. He has asked for help. Britain is already engaged in air strikes in Iraq. Should we not play our full part?
People say airstrikes don’t achieve much. But before the UK engaged in airstrikes in Iraq Isis was almost at the gates of Baghdad, he says.
He lists some of the human rights abuses committed by Isis (or Daesh as he calls them), and he lists some of the terrorist attacks for which they are responsible.
Can we really leave it to others to defend our national security?
If we don’t act, what message will that send, he says.
He says President Hollande is leader of Labour’s sister socialist party. He has asked for help. Britain is already engaged in air strikes in Iraq. Should we not play our full part?
People say airstrikes don’t achieve much. But before the UK engaged in airstrikes in Iraq Isis was almost at the gates of Baghdad, he says.
TomandJerry
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- #27
Double post
TomandJerry
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Benn says he is directing his closing remarks to Labour MPs.
As a party, they have always been defined by internationalism.
We are here faced by fascists, he says. These people hold us, and our values in contempt.
Fascists need to be confronted, he says. Labour has always stood up to them. We must now confront this evil, he says.
MPs are applauding Benn’s speech. That is very unusual. But it was a great speech - the best of the day.
As a party, they have always been defined by internationalism.
We are here faced by fascists, he says. These people hold us, and our values in contempt.
Fascists need to be confronted, he says. Labour has always stood up to them. We must now confront this evil, he says.
MPs are applauding Benn’s speech. That is very unusual. But it was a great speech - the best of the day.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
I would vote NO but suspect thats not going to haplen
Prince Monolulu
Everything in Moderation
Whatever your politics, Benn was outstanding there.
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
Good effort that, from Benn
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Hilary Benn would be a good leader of the Labour Party. He is a great orator and isn't mental.
TomandJerry
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- #33
Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, says Benn’s speech will be remembered as one of the truly great speeches given in the Commons.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Two useful attributes in a Leader and I liked the way he budged corbyn out of the way to sit down , perhaps a sign of things to come!
Outstanding speech well done Hilary.
TomandJerry
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- #35
Hammond says 104 backbenchers have spoken in the debate. They have done justice to the subject, he says.
One of the key issues has been, What is the military plan?
All MPs agree that air strikes on their own will not defeat Isis.
But they will make a difference, he says.
Opponents of the government argue that bombing Raqqa won’t make a difference, and that it will also create a power vacuum. They cannot have it both ways, he says.
He says ultimately there will have to be a ground assault on Raqqa. But that may be months away, or years away.
Hammond says there are Islamists in the Syrian opposition.
But the UK can work with Islamists. There are Islamists in the parliaments of Kuwait and Tunisia, he says.
One of the key issues has been, What is the military plan?
All MPs agree that air strikes on their own will not defeat Isis.
But they will make a difference, he says.
Opponents of the government argue that bombing Raqqa won’t make a difference, and that it will also create a power vacuum. They cannot have it both ways, he says.
He says ultimately there will have to be a ground assault on Raqqa. But that may be months away, or years away.
Hammond says there are Islamists in the Syrian opposition.
But the UK can work with Islamists. There are Islamists in the parliaments of Kuwait and Tunisia, he says.
TomandJerry
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- #36
Hammond says there is now a diplomatic settlement underway.
The countries involved accept the need to preserve the institutions of the Syrian state.
And they have set a timetable for a transition to a new government.
John Kerry, the US secretary of state, says there can be no military solution to the Syrian crisis, Hammond says. There has to be a political solution, Kerry says. Kerry says the Vienna process offers the best hope for four years. And, Hammond goes on, Kerry says the Russians are committed to this process, and that they are open to a new constitution for Syria and elections.
The countries involved accept the need to preserve the institutions of the Syrian state.
And they have set a timetable for a transition to a new government.
John Kerry, the US secretary of state, says there can be no military solution to the Syrian crisis, Hammond says. There has to be a political solution, Kerry says. Kerry says the Vienna process offers the best hope for four years. And, Hammond goes on, Kerry says the Russians are committed to this process, and that they are open to a new constitution for Syria and elections.
TomandJerry
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Hammond turns to the question of whether air strikes will make Britain more vulnerable.
In 2014 there were 15 external Isis attacks. This year there have been 150, he says. He says Britain is already a top-tier threat.
In 2014 there were 15 external Isis attacks. This year there have been 150, he says. He says Britain is already a top-tier threat.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,329
inadvertantly becoming a leader in waiting i think.
TomandJerry
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- #39
Division...lobby being cleared!
TomandJerry
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MPs are now voting. They are voting first on the cross-party amendment tabled by John Baron saying the case for airstrikes has not been made.