The Official 102nd Tour de France, thread.

[Bold Seagull]

He was to blame, purely on the basis he had no reason to be descending like a madman on a descent like that. He wasn't going to win the stage, he isn't going to win the tour, Gallopin had been gapped - what exactly was he trying to achieve?

He could have sat on Poels wheel to the bottom of the descent and rolled in with that group.

Exactly. He wouldn't have attacked from that group even if he'd got to the front of it. Just being an idiot pure and simple.

 

[pb21]

Barguil wasn’t descending like a madman, well at least no madder than the rest, and he wasn’t looking to attack!

Blame Nibali too, he should have respected the jerseys and not attacked in an irresponsible manner on a ‘dangerous’ descent where the most he could gain, barring no accidents, was a handful of seconds when he is minutes behind in the first place.

 

[wakeytom]

I think you are reading this all wrong. Barguil at the time isn't even in the top 10, he is trying to gain places in a group containing the Yellow and White jerseys, and the top GC riders, the top 7 of which are all 7mins or more ahead of him at the time. Yet he takes a massive risk to gain a place or two, and potentially could have transformed this race through nothing more than reckless bike handling. Respect the jerseys! Imagine if he'd hit Froome or Quintana or both. You could have the TdF won by someone else because of an idiot.

Quintana summed it up for me by branding Barguil 'irritating' for this type of riding when he's not involved in the GC race.

If he was a F1 driver he'd be blue flagged so as not to effect the front of the race. The race wasn't to blame, he most certainly was and the least he could have done was checked both Thomas and the spectators were all okay before jumping back on his bike. Would have cost him 10 more seconds just to have checked.

You cannot have that in cycling, a lot of it is based on who is around you - be it your team or another train you get on to. My view is yes he made a mistake, there was a little bump just before it which in a game that is all about millimetres (see Greg Lemond the other day saying that if his seat was 1mm off height wise when he raced he would have known) took someone who obviously descents on the edge based on what he has done before enough off track to cause the accident.

I know he went to speak to G straight after the race, maybe a time penalty in line with what G lost and its done for me, nothing more

 

[Postman Pat]

Barguil wasn’t descending like a madman, well at least no madder than the rest, and he wasn’t looking to attack!

Blame Nibali too, he should have respected the jerseys and not attacked in an irresponsible manner on a ‘dangerous’ descent where the most he could gain, barring no accidents, was a handful of seconds when he is minutes behind in the first place.

Nibali attacked on the way up!! He didn't descend with the rest of the yellow jersey group.

The others had something to gain, he didn't.

 

[Bold Seagull]

We seem to be the only ones defending Barguil! Much worse stuff happens in the peloton every day, there's crappy riding that causes wheel touches and massive crashes in the pack - the perpetrator doesn't stop and check anything. These incidents happen all the time and Barguil didn't set out to hurt G, he has apologised and merely explained why he moved his line.

You can't just slam on the anchors doing that kind of speed, approaching a corner like that in the heat. His best chance was the slow in a controlled manner and take his foot out - if he had panicked then the back wheel would have gone and he would have slid through about 4 of them, sending them all off the road.

Now I completely respect your opinion given your racing background, so perhaps better placed than most of us to comment on it. However, a wheel touch within a peloton isn't really the same as what seems to be a real negligent piece of bike handling within the small leading GC group on a fast descent?

I agree, loads of pro cyclists get fast corners wrong, Geraint Thomas is no stranger to taking on a fast corner far too fast and has gone straight on a few times, but generally if you are taking a corner as fast as possible surely you're as wide as possible trying to take the apex? On the inside you will always be going slower than everyone else, and yet Barguil is going faster than those taking it out wide.

As I've said above, a negligent piece of riding from someone who is not racing against anyone in that group. I'd imagine in your racing days you'd be well chuffed looking good for a podium being taken out by someone with no baring on the race whatsoever.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You cannot have that in cycling, a lot of it is based on who is around you - be it your team or another train you get on to. My view is yes he made a mistake, there was a little bump just before it which in a game that is all about millimetres (see Greg Lemond the other day saying that if his seat was 1mm off height wise when he raced he would have known) took someone who obviously descents on the edge based on what he has done before enough off track to cause the accident.

I know he went to speak to G straight after the race, maybe a time penalty in line with what G lost and its done for me, nothing more

Of course you cannot have it in cycling, and of course you can attack a group, I was just making the point there seemed no reason whatsoever he should be looking to gain places in that group at that time.

 

[pb21]

Nibali attacked on the way up!! He didn't descend with the rest of the yellow jersey group.

The others had something to gain, he didn't.

He attacked on the way up with the intention of using his descending skills to gain time, irresponsible. He knows the others are weaker than him at descending, including both the yellow and white jerseys, yet he was trying to gain time on them on a dangerous descent. He isn't respecting the jerseys, he should have stayed with them, or slowed on the descent so they would catch up.

 

[Triggaaar]

He attacked on the way up with the intention of using his descending skills to gain time, irresponsible. He knows the others are weaker than him at descending, including both the yellow and white jerseys, yet he was trying to gain time on them on a dangerous descent. He isn't respecting the jerseys, he should have stayed with them, or slowed on the descent so they would catch up.

I know you're being facetious, but I don't get your point.

 

[pb21]

I know you're being facetious, but I don't get your point.

My point is that there was a whole host of reasons that led to Thomas coming a cropper:

Nibali attacking and putting the pressure on an infamous descent, knowing that it would force a chase behind.
TvG changing line, possible because Gesink broke unexpectedly, maybe because he was under pressure.
Barguil possibly riding too fast, given what was about to happen.
The fact that the tour organisers decided to send it down this road in the first place.
Ad infinitum…

To pick out one, and IMO a shaky one at best, is disingenuous and doesn’t take into account the whole situation.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Barguil wasn’t descending like a madman, well at least no madder than the rest, and he wasn’t looking to attack!

Which makes his bike handling even worse, if he's not looking to gain places within the group at that point then he's had an even bigger shocking than I first thought!

Blame Nibali too, he should have respected the jerseys and not attacked in an irresponsible manner on a ‘dangerous’ descent where the most he could gain, barring no accidents, was a handful of seconds when he is minutes behind in the first place.

Now you really are confusing what is being said. Respecting the jerseys isn't about not attacking, but as you yourself have said, Barguil isn't attacking that group, he's deep inside it. If Nibali wants to gain time, then attacking at the start of a descent is the prefect time to do so, even if he only wants a few seconds. If you want to descend fast you get off the front of a group by working hard. You don't sit in a group, come hurtling up the inside on the fastest corner and risk taking half the group out.

 

[Bold Seagull]

My point is that there was a whole host of reasons that led to Thomas coming a cropper:

Nibali attacking and putting the pressure on an infamous descent, knowing that it would force a chase behind.
TvG changing line, possible because Gesink broke unexpectedly, maybe because he was under pressure.
Barguil possibly riding too fast, given what was about to happen.
The fact that the tour organisers decided to send it down this road in the first place.
Ad infinitum…

To pick out one, and IMO a shaky one at best, is disingenuous and doesn’t take into account the whole situation.

It's everyones fault except Barguil's!

I'm too stunned to type. I love rest days!!!

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Ahhh rest day - will it all be turned upside down by Sunday in Paris - White and Green must be settled (bar accident) Polka Dots, Yellow and NSC Geeks podium places all to play for on the Cols and mountain sides of the Alps.

 

[Triggaaar]

My point is that there was a whole host of reasons that led to Thomas coming a cropper:

Nibali attacking and putting the pressure on an infamous descent, knowing that it would force a chase behind.

You can't be serious? What's going on the list next, his gandad's decision to buy him his first bike? His great grandparents decision to have children?

Ad infinitum…

To pick out one, and IMO a shaky one at best, is disingenuous and doesn’t take into account the whole situation.

I think your comment is disingenuous. If it was due to riders around Barguil, then fair enough, but let's not get silly and bring anything else into it.

 

[Fignon's Ponytail]

Ahhh rest day - will it all be turned upside down by Sunday in Paris - White and Green must be settled (bar accident) Polka Dots, Yellow and NSC Geeks podium places all to play for on the Cols and mountain sides of the Alps.

Any prizes for the Lanterne Rouge?

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Any prizes for the Lanterne Rouge?

I'm, still aiming for that hallowed spot by paris

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/features/ned-and-chris-tdf-faq-the-lanterne-rouge-explained

I think the rider always does traditionally well, by getting invited to a lot of post tour crits and lots of media spots and fees paid - I'm sure the ASO tried to get rid of it once but the public - especially the French love it - to me just completing the whole tour is very impressive

 

[1066familyman]

Thank God there's now a debate going on to detract from the Sky love in. I do wonder what reaction we'd see on here if it was G taking out Barguil instead.
As for stopping to see if G is alright. Even Poels keeps on riding rather than actually dismount. In race situations no one gets off the bike to see if someone's alright unless you're a Dom on the same team.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Thank God there's now a debate going on to detract from the Sky love in. I do wonder what reaction we'd see on here if it was G taking out Barguil instead.
As for stopping to see if G is alright. Even Poels keeps on riding rather than actually dismount. In race situations no one gets off the bike to see if someone's alright unless you're a Dom on the same team.

It's because it was Sky, now I realise why I'm so upset!

As is happens, had he hit Quintana I think I'd have been even more livid...

 

[Stat Brother]

The more I see of Thomas, the more I love him. Genuinely my favorite guy in the peloton. I think the Commonwealth games last year was when this mancrush started.

To help things along.
I was listening to an interview with a selection of tour mechanic
Naturally the bike set up is an exact science, and the riders know what they want and how they want it, to the centimetre.
All except one, when talking about G, the mechanic said:-

'Yeah we could give G a BMX and he wouldn't notice the difference'.
'He just gets on a bike and rides it'.

 

[Bold Seagull]

To help things along.
I was listening to an interview with a selection of tour mechanic
Naturally the bike set up is an exact science, and the riders know what they want and how they want it, to the centimetre.
All except one, when talking about G, the mechanic said:-

'Yeah we could give G a BMX and he wouldn't notice the difference'.
'He just gets on a bike and rides it'.

He's that rare thing in elite sport where he seems completely unaffected by his fame/fortune/talent/achievements. So many seem to lose that basic joy and enjoyment of what they do, or at least they appear to. Sagan is another who just seems to have that rare boyish joy of 'holy crap I'm leading a wonderful life riding a bike!'. The majority may feel that way of course, but only a few seem to be able to show it in the media.

 

[1234andcounting]

To be fair, G must be the master of bracing himself for crashes....he probably has more of them than any other rider in the peloton, bar Gesink maybe.

Your post reminded me of this - Abdoujaparov in 1991.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBtCaLYFKjo