The NEW £60million Falmer Stadium

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I don't think we are talking Nuclear Power Station here! I am all for a green stadium, but we are going to need a power station to run it, unless you are suggesting we tap into the power box of The Swan Inn.

I think the nuclear power plant option was the scenario if planning permission wasn't given for a football stadium.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No I havent followed the criteria.


I have read your post a couple of times and although intriguing, I am still trying to see how this somehow is likely to increase the viability of this project and how this might placate the spooked bankers whom will continue to be drawing in much of their lending.

I presume that no amount of fancy footwork will ease the lenders current fears, I would expect someone or some peoples will have to dig a little deeper into their own personal funds to ease this through.

Using your own arguement - the new company are first time buyers - therefore the BHA credit history is not relevent ( although I disagree with your premice anyway ).

I'm absolutely 100% positive that the club would not have spent £6m+ getting this far without having financial backers in place for the stadium in principle. The backers may, depneding on contractual obligations, be announced once the finance is fully in place - until then I'm really not sure what everybody is getting so worked up about.

The exact price has not been worked out yet, the contractor has not been selected so the club are hardly likely to announce the financial backer, or what is more likely backerS.

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and trust MP - he has done this before you know ! I'm also guessing that most people that have demanded to know the financial backer(s) have never being involved in major construction projects with major money being borrowed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BigGully]

Using your own arguement - the new company are first time buyers - therefore the BHA credit history is not relevent ( although I disagree with your premice anyway ).

I'm absolutely 100% positive that the club would not have spent £6m+ getting this far without having financial backers in place for the stadium in principle. The backers may, depneding on contractual obligations, be announced once the finance is fully in place - until then I'm really not sure what everybody is getting so worked up about.

The exact price has not been worked out yet, the contractor has not been selected so the club are hardly likely to announce the financial backer, or what is more likely backerS.

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and trust MP - he has done this before you know ! I'm also guessing that most people that have demanded to know the financial backer(s) have never being involved in major construction projects with major money being borrowed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The premise is not too important as it just a recognition how the financial institutions are extremely risk averse at present and I cannot fathom why we would be insulated from this.

Of course BHAFC and CSC is inextricably linked, who else is going to generate the main income for the whole project.

It's really not about the club's spendings up to now or that you might be 100% positive that the club will come through this, I hope so too.

But not to acknowledge that the economic and financial landscape has changed is ridiculous.

 

[Tory Boy]

Can someone remind me where the fans bar/club house will be?

TB

 

[Everest]

Just the other side of the bridge

 

[ROSM]

The planning application has already been called in TWICE which was why we had to wait for a new public enquiry and a new approval from Hazel Blears

Howver, there are strict conditions relating to the permission most of which MUST be satified BEFORE construction will be allowed to start.

and many of those conditions related to the exact details of finishings (cladding, brickwork, roofs etc) and ameleorating measures such as environmental screening etc

in fact all the things that are in this application

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

The club have done every thing they can to make it clear to people what is happening.

This phase is standard stuff in a major project like this. You agree the big issues and the site and size etc, then when all that is done you have subsequent meetings to agree the smaller details and to address any legislative changes that have occurred during the very lengthy process. This is what we were told would happen - this is what is happening.

The Argus have built this up by implying that the whole thing is back into planning and that the whole design is changing - it's not as we all now know. This stage was always going to happen and it has - exactly as we were told it would.

 

[Seasider78]

The club have done every thing they can to make it clear to people what is happening.

This phase is standard stuff in a major project like this. You agree the big issues and the site and size etc, then when all that is done you have subsequent meetings to agree the smaller details and to address any legislative changes that have occurred during the very lengthy process. This is what we were told would happen - this is what is happening.

The Argus have built this up by implying that the whole thing is back into planning and that the whole design is changing - it's not as we all now know. This stage was always going to happen and it has - exactly as we were told it would.

Exactly anyone who attended the Stadium forum back in April will be well aware of these applications and anyone suprised with the rise in costs is either retarded or has spent tha last 5 years with their head in the ground.

I can't wait until January when these get passed and building work is well underway so some of the alleged fans of this club can get behind this project rather than wishing for it to fail at every turn.

 

[ROSM]

The premise is not too important as it just a recognition how the financial institutions are extremely risk averse at present and I cannot fathom why we would be insulated from this.

Of course BHAFC and CSC is inextricably linked, who else is going to generate the main income for the whole project.

It's really not about the club's spendings up to now or that you might be 100% positive that the club will come through this, I hope so too.

But not to acknowledge that the economic and financial landscape has changed is ridiculous.

You write a lot of sense on this - the climate has changed. However in our case, either by good design or luck - we have a development that doesn't include the risk elements that financial institutions are shying away from at present - housing and retail. The use of education as the co development will deliver sufficient grant funding amd sustained use that will allow financial partners to invest in a more risk averse way.

To that end, the credit crunch hasn't made our position worse. banks still have money to lend, they are just more choosey to who and how they do it.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

alleged fans of this club can get behind this project rather than wishing for it to fail at every turn.

Not sure people are wishing it to fail - they are jumpy after such a long time. But it would be good if sometimes people counted to 10 before panicking!

 

[BigGully]

You write a lot of sense on this - the climate has changed. However in our case, either by good design or luck - we have a development that doesn't include the risk elements that financial institutions are shying away from at present - housing and retail. The use of education as the co development will deliver sufficient grant funding amd sustained use that will allow financial partners to invest in a more risk averse way.

To that end, the credit crunch hasn't made our position worse. banks still have money to lend, they are just more choosey to who and how they do it.

I hope that you are right.

But the public funding element although hopefully safe and significant, wouldnt impact directly on the banking funding part of the project other than diminishing the amount needed to borrow, which of course is important.

I would suspect that they couldn't secure any part of that lending on any of the 'grant funding' parts, therefore the risks elements stay the same and we remain a little vulnerable to the current financial climate.

I am just a little concerned that if Bankers are reluctant to lend for any residential and commercial projects which historically have sound medium term returns they would feel at ease to look at our project any more positively.

 

[Curious Orange]

Look we are on the same side for this one but ..................

At least a credible first time buyer is likely to have a clean credit record which could be looked at favourably within certain parameters.

If the new buyer pays for a few years on their new mortgage, then at least history suggests that the mortgage company is unlikely to take a massive financial blow and even a good bet redeem all of its money including some profits if they were forced to sell a repossessed residential property.

I am not too sure why many feel that we might be a better bet.

I am not too sure why our stadium project should be seen as anything but a risk, something that banks are not comfortable with at the moment.

Our current and previous accounts look awful and what would the banks do with a repossessed stadium ?

I accept that there must be an extensive business plan, but in todays climate financial institutions might not wish to accept the many assumption held within it, the financial climate at present is woeful and we must all be mindful of this.

It isn't the club's accounts that they will be looking at though. The club won't own or even build the stadium as I understand it. The club will just be the tenants.

 

[British Bulldog]

So now we are all fully aware of the increased cost of building the stadium has there been any mention of what sort of crowds we will need at Falmer to break even?

 

[BigGully]

It isn't the club's accounts that they will be looking at though. The club won't own or even build the stadium as I understand it. The club will just be the tenants.

I am sorry, the two are inextricably linked, irrespective of how the companies might be set up.

There might be a number of companies formed as part of this project, but they will to a greater or lesser degree be interwoven and the banks know that and to some extent actually be party to those companies formations.

If BHA are to be the main revenue stream, then past years accounts, attendances and other expenses will undoubtedly be relevant to any prospective lender.

 

[The Large One]

So now we are all fully aware of the increased cost of building the stadium has there been any mention of what sort of crowds we will need at Falmer to break even?

That is always a highly flexible number.

It's not as though the club would ever be deceitful in not saying what a break-even figure would be, but because there are many factors to consider - the prime one in this instance being 'how much is a match ticket going to cost?' - any figures mentioned now would only ever be hypothetical, based on one set of circumstances; circumstances which could, and probably will change from time to time.

 

[BigGully]

So now we are all fully aware of the increased cost of building the stadium has there been any mention of what sort of crowds we will need at Falmer to break even?

Its a fair point, a little tweak of the business plan might be useful, however I would supsect that the club might struggle to convincingly increase the top lines, included attendances etc, so there might be an effort to decrease some of their expenses to allow their breakeven to still look credible.

I still think that in the end the extra funding may well have to be financed by greater committments from individuals, I just hope they can offer extra guarantees or cash.

 

[British Bulldog]

That is always a highly flexible number.

It's not as though the club would ever be deceitful in not saying what a break-even figure would be, but because there are many factors to consider - the prime one in this instance being 'how much is a match ticket going to cost?' - any figures mentioned now would only ever be hypothetical, based on one set of circumstances; circumstances which could, and probably will change from time to time.

Well the club did mention a break even figure of 12,000 before, But now the costs are rising i'm just wondering how far that figure has to rise to keep pace with it?

 

[The Large One]

I am sorry, the two are inextricably linked, irrespective of how the companies might be set up.

There might be a number of companies formed as part of this project, but they will to a greater or lesser degree be interwoven and the banks know that and to some extent actually be party to those companies formations.

If BHA are to be the main revenue stream, then past years accounts, attendances and other expenses will undoubtedly be relevant to any prospective lender.

Yes and no.

I agree about the club and the stadium being, to a greater degree (though certainly not exclusively) the same thing as the stadium company in accouting terms, though the City College will also account for a decent whack of revenue.

However, there's little point in comparing accounts, revenues and all other things between what was achieved at Withdean (a dump, 8,850 capacity, no proper roof, no decent facilities etc), and we could or ought to get at Falmer (very much not a dump).

 

[Curious Orange]

I am sorry, the two are inextricably linked, irrespective of how the companies might be set up.

There might be a number of companies formed as part of this project, but they will to a greater or lesser degree be interwoven and the banks know that and to some extent actually be party to those companies formations.

If BHA are to be the main revenue stream, then past years accounts, attendances and other expenses will undoubtedly be relevant to any prospective lender.

Will they also be interested in the accounts of the City Council then, as the part owner of the stadium, and the City College as the other prospective tenants?

 

[The Large One]

Well the club did mention a break even figure of 12,000 before, But now the costs are rising i'm just wondering how far that figure has to rise to keep pace with it?

It depends on revenue, not just from ticket sales, but from merchandise, sponsorship (more attractive), advertising (ditto), increased rent etc.