The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[biddles911]

Let the Labour Tories join up with May, UKIP and Leadsom's mob can merge, Lib Dems & Greens join up too and of course Labour led by Corbyn as the natural party of Government and once PR is brought in then votes will count everywhere just like the referendum ones

We had a referendum on proportional representation in 2011 and it was rejected.

I'm sure you wouldn't want to re-run this clear mandate from the people just to serve your own agenda?!


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[London Irish]

I've been trying to help you out by trying to find people quoted as saying they want repeated leadership elections. I haven't found one. I'm beginning to think you just made it up.

Erm no. My earlier comment was about a conversation I had with a local party member here in Brighton. These people exist - they know Eagle is crap but she has some use to them in getting rid of Corbyn (except she will be annihilated in any actual vote) so they can then move on one of their more favoured candidates afterwards, the ones who don't want to be humiliated in a vote right now against Corbyn.

 

[Titanic]

Erm no. My earlier comment was about a conversation I had with a local party member here in Brighton. These people exist - they know Eagle is crap but she has some use to them in getting rid of Corbyn (except she will be annihilated in any actual vote) so they can then move on one of their more favoured candidates afterwards, the ones who don't want to be humiliated in a vote right now against Corbyn.

This makes even less sense than usual.

How is she any "use to them" if she "will be annihilated in any actual vote"?

Surely that just bolsters JC and leaves even less chance for "one of their more favoured candidates"?

 

[ROSM]

I really don't believe there will be mass deselections - once Corbyn wins again - this time by probably about 80 per cent - an olive branch will be offered to all the plotters to work constructively for the good of all Labour Party supporters. As serious people, I expect them to take it. Meanwhile, some good will come of this backbiting, we are now on the road to becoming a million-member party

I have seen nothing from momentum that shows anything other than a pressure group with chips on both shoulders. The only olive branch would be the one poking in the eye, sitting MP's they define as red tories or blue labour for daring to questions corbyn infallibility

 

[Don Quixote]

Why didn't Angela Eagle and her gang put in a challenge to Ed 'Bacon Butty' Miliband when it was obvious he was never going to win an election ? Like everyone we showed loyalty to him as the democratically elected leader so why can't they do the same now ?

Personally the sooner they all leave the Labour Party the better, I'd take losing the next election and so we cleanse the party of the right wing Tory infiltrators

This is exactly the danger the party faces. People who actually want to be in opposition.

 

[cunning fergus]

And isn't that the problem. There is no willingness from the far left to compromise in order to achieve power. Just because you aren't a dyed in the wool out and out socialist doesn't make you a Tory. Maybe a split in the party is inevitable but if it did, almost certainly guaranteeing the Tories a win in 2020.

I can feel your pain, your world has quite literally been turned upside down.

It has been the Blairites that have never ever compromised, they are still not compromising, the current chaos in the Labour Party is the consequence of Blairites inability to compromise.

Hopefully they are cutting their own throats, the membership will certainly exact justice for their disloyalty.

They have no ideology, no integrity, no honour........they want power at any cost and they will say anything and do anything for it.

Once their Tory blood has been spilt the Labour Party can re-build around its socialist core........I can't wait.

 

[beorhthelm]

I can feel your pain, your world has quite literally been turned upside down.

It has been the Blairites that have never ever compromised, they are still not compromising, the current chaos in the Labour Party is the consequence of Blairites inability to compromise.

Hopefully they are cutting their own throats, the membership will certainly exact justice for their disloyalty.

They have no ideology, no integrity, no honour........they want power at any cost and they will say anything and do anything for it.

Once their Tory blood has been spilt the Labour Party can re-build around its socialist core........I can't wait.

seriously, to what purpose if that core can only attract less than 30% of the population (being generous) and are in perpetual opposition?

 

[Hampster Gull]

I cannot believe this guy is hanging around. FFs, what are the labourites thinking. Disaster and you are eltting the nasty party off the hook

 

[wellquickwoody]

I can feel your pain, your world has quite literally been turned upside down.

It has been the Blairites that have never ever compromised, they are still not compromising, the current chaos in the Labour Party is the consequence of Blairites inability to compromise.

Hopefully they are cutting their own throats, the membership will certainly exact justice for their disloyalty.

They have no ideology, no integrity, no honour........they want power at any cost and they will say anything and do anything for it.

Once their Tory blood has been spilt the Labour Party can re-build around its socialist core........I can't wait.

Jesus Christ! I mean Jeremy Corbyn! And you wonder why the the electorate think the current Labour party is irrelevant.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The world has moved on in the last 40 years. Whether people believe it or not most people are a lot better off and their thinking has changed, they don't want to fight for their rights they want to maintain what they have. This is what the new labour recognised and when they got a bit stale people moved back to the Tories. So people pedalling a 60s style socialism (however right that might be) will never get elected and the government will be moving further to the right and dismantling things like the NHS.

Sure this is a broad brush statement which omits a lot of fine detail but IMO reflects the state of the UK and why Corbyn will NEVER lead an effective opposition , let alone an effective government.

 

[cunning fergus]

seriously, to what purpose if that core can only attract less than 30% of the population (being generous) and are in perpetual opposition?

The key point here is if?

Had Corbyn kept to his long held anti EU beliefs he would be glorified as a political genius post referendum, reaching out to traditional labour heartlands.

If there is one thing the Labour Party need it is political integrity, the PLP have literally none, they stand for nothing beyond their own political aggrandisement.

We don't need another Blair, we need to have serious left wing politics, re-control of the labour market, re-nationalisation of the railways and Royal Mail for example.........these are socialist policies that will chime with much of the public.

The central ground is largely Tory ground, I don't want to vote labour to further free market Tory ideology.

 

[cunning fergus]

Jesus Christ! I mean Jeremy Corbyn! And you wonder why the the electorate think the current Labour party is irrelevant.

The electorate don't know what Labour stand for because 20 years ago they have left their traditional values to embrace Tory ideology.

That meant they appealed to soft Tories, at the expense of old Labour.

This was not a particular problem all the while the Labour Party were in power, now they are not the party has to choose what identity it wants.

The membership view is pretty clear to me.........let's clear the Tories from the labour decks, there is no going back now.......if Corbyn wins the PLP is dead, if Eagle wins the PLP are on their own.

There it is, that is not my fault, it's the PLP.

 

[ROSM]

Interesting Yougov poll tonight saying members of the 5 big affiliated unions seemingly over 60% that Corbyn should be gone by next election.

Corbyn could be the only leader without the support of his parliamentary party or his paymasters. Just the £3 day trippers plus the cultists left?

 

[drew]

The key point here is if?

Had Corbyn kept to his long held anti EU beliefs he would be glorified as a political genius post referendum, reaching out to traditional labour heartlands.

If there is one thing the Labour Party need it is political integrity, the PLP have literally none, they stand for nothing beyond their own political aggrandisement.

We don't need another Blair, we need to have serious left wing politics, re-control of the labour market, re-nationalisation of the railways and Royal Mail for example.........these are socialist policies that will chime with much of the public.

The central ground is largely Tory ground, I don't want to vote labour to further free market Tory ideology.

Well good luck with that then. With JC at the helm, Labour are on the same course as the Titanic. There are deluded fools like you who prefer to shout from the sidelines in perpetuity rather than win power and make a positive change to the lives of those that need it most.

 

[Soulman]

Interesting Yougov poll tonight saying members of the 5 big affiliated unions seemingly over 60% that Corbyn should be gone by next election.

Corbyn could be the only leader without the support of his parliamentary party or his paymasters. Just the £3 day trippers plus the cultists left?

And the ones at the meeting we were told about in Brighton.

 

[Stato]

The key point here is if?

Had Corbyn kept to his long held anti EU beliefs he would be glorified as a political genius post referendum, reaching out to traditional labour heartlands.

If there is one thing the Labour Party need it is political integrity, the PLP have literally none, they stand for nothing beyond their own political aggrandisement.

We don't need another Blair, we need to have serious left wing politics, re-control of the labour market, re-nationalisation of the railways and Royal Mail for example.........these are socialist policies that will chime with much of the public.

The central ground is largely Tory ground, I don't want to vote labour to further free market Tory ideology.

Had Corbyn stuck to his anti-EU beliefs two thirds of Labour supporters would have voted against him, instead of one third.
There is no doubt that a good proportion of the traditional Labour vote didn't follow the party line, but let's not forget that the majority of Brexit voters were Tory and the majority of Tory voters were Brexit.
I'm still intrigued as to why you are so concerned with the direction of the Labour Party. I remember asking you a while back whether you have ever voted Labour. I don't remember you answering. If you don't mind me asking again, have you?

 

[beorhthelm]

We don't need another Blair, we need to have serious left wing politics, re-control of the labour market, re-nationalisation of the railways and Royal Mail for example.........these are socialist policies that will chime with much of the public.

the last two elections showed how much socialist policies chime, Labour went left after Blair and they lost 5% of the voting electorate. i dont see how this goes up if they go further left.

 

[cunning fergus]

Well good luck with that then. With JC at the helm, Labour are on the same course as the Titanic. There are deluded fools like you who prefer to shout from the sidelines in perpetuity rather than win power and make a positive change to the lives of those that need it most.

If you want to appeal to the feeble minded vacuous constituency that have no core political ideology that's fine too.

The fact remains that you (and the PLP) want a new Blair, someone who can re-gain power not through political ideology but through strength of personality.

But, we have had that, it's the reason we are here now.

You may not like that but it's the truth..........in hindsight Blair was not successful he was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[cunning fergus]

the last two elections showed how much socialist policies chime, Labour went left after Blair and they lost 5% of the voting electorate. i dont see how this goes up if they go further left.

They didn't, they should have introduced controls to the labour market at the unskilled end, re-nationalised the railways, the utilities and bailed out the British industry. These would be vote winners, it grabs most of the 52% that voted out.

Instead Labour did the opposite such was their commitment to the EU.

The trouble these days is some people throw about comments about left and right as if they are factual designators of political belief.......they help build orthodoxies for the weak minded but actually mean nothing.

 

[NooBHA]

There is no doubting that Jeremy has divided the Labour Party and he may be unelectable as the media are predicting; however, I do sometimes wonder do the big Corporate Business' and the Media fear him being in Power because he might actually start to hold them accountable or do they fear he may take away their ''self regulations''. and make them answerable to a body outwith their control.

There is absolutely no doubt that everyone who will listen we are being told that he is unelectable and that could well be the case. The opposite could also be true. Perhaps when it comes to the lead up to an election. Perhaps his openness when it comes to putting together an Election Manifesto, who knows he might do the opposite and strike a cord with the electorate. He may not be as unelectable as people are being led to believe.

I welcome the challenge to his leadership and if he loses and I would feel we must abide by that, but if he wins then the Party other Labour MPs should get behind him or leave. I am probably in a minority of 2 with Ernest on this view so I think I will buy a tin helmet for this one.