The Holocaust

[CHAPPERS]

There were loads of camps all over the place, i've forgotten most of what i learnt about the camps from hy histroy lessons, might start raeding up on it again as it is strangely interesting.

 

[CAFC Matt]

There are loads of websites about it

 

[looney]

CtS

The soviets were imperial hence the cold war.


Dont agree about every ideology either, Pacifism? Or maybe they just lacked the oppertunity.


Pro-lifers claim that the Feminist baby holocaust exceeds the work of the nazi's. Who knows? maybe they will get the oppertunity to "re-write" or re-interpet history one day?

 

[CHAPPERS]

LOL looney, should have elaborated shouldn't I!

Read Hubris by Ian Kershaw, grae book about all things Hitler.

 

[looney]

Read

Massacre on the Monte Sole

Feildwhores

Angel of Aushwitz

All probably misspelt but all pretty gorey.

 

[CAFC Matt]

I read that book and it is very very good

 

[Dandyman]

So did Communists. After the Russian revolution the russian secret service slaughtered peasants and there families on site, cant remember the name of it it had 4 letters and was the precurser to the KGB. A third of the population of Cambodia was exsterminated in death camps.

It wasn't unique.

The majority of deaths under Stalin occurred during collectivisation and the period of the Ukrainian famine between 1929 - 33 and were the result of incompetence, civil disorder and deliberate neglect. The major difference was that the Nazis were engaged in the deliberate planned extermination of a people.

In the Bengal famine of 1943 - 44 around 2.1 million Indian subjects of the Raj died during a period of official indifference ended only when Wavell was appointed Vice - Roy. Not something that figures in many Raj tales.

The genocide in Cambodia was ended when that country was liberated by Vietnamese communists. Vietnam's reward was being invaded by China and being subjected to economic terrorism by the USA.

We could. I guess, also go on about the Irish famine and the attitude of the British government and Irish grain merchants of the day or about the number of preventable deaths caused today due to developing world debt,etc.

 

[sherriffbart]

Taken from Fatherland by Robert harris

"...around 11 million Jews are involved in this Final Solution of the Jewish problem......not just German Jews. The minutes ( from a meeting between the main Nazi protaganists) listed more than thirty European nationalities, including French Jews ( 865,000), Dutch Jews (160,000), Polish Jews (2,284,000) Ukranian Jews ( 2,994,684); there were English, Spanish,Irish, Swedish and Finnish Jews; the conference even found room for the Albanian Jews ( all 200 of them)..."

Auschwitz
Kulmhof
Belzec
Treblinka
Majdanek
Sobibor

The gas chanbers were built and designed by Germany's finest architects and builders, the planning of the throughput by Germany's finest planners, medical experiments performed by qualified Doctors and Nurses.


Did you know, not one document found after the war relating the the Jewish Final Solution had Adolf Hitler's signature on it!!

 

[CHAPPERS]

Did you know, not one document found after the war relating the the Jewish Final Solution had Adolf Hitler's signature on it!!

I know, interesting that. The 'crack' team set up to deal with the Fianl Solution who were all present at the Wansee Conference (where the details of the Final Solution were discussed) daelt with it mostly leaving Hitler to f*** the German war effort right up. Cock piece.

Been there too, the place where the Wansee Conference was held, magnificent building but still a horrible place to go. Very informative my history trips were.

 

[looney]

The majority of deaths under Stalin occurred during collectivisation and the period of the Ukrainian famine between 1929 - 33 and were the result of incompetence, civil disorder and deliberate neglect. The major difference was that the Nazis were engaged in the deliberate planned extermination of a people.

Thats not what I said, some of the murders in Russia were deliberate and planned, peasants and jews.


The theres the Turkish slaughter of armenians.
There are loads of examples, the one thing they all have in common is Dictatorship. The statte being the tool of twisted leaders.

sherrifbart
Thats why some revisionists claim hitler was innocent cos he did not sign anything.

 

[Man of Harveys]

In marked contrast to some, notably Steven Spielberg, the director of Shoah decided that it was impossible, even wrong, to try to convey the murder of so many people in film, even choosing not to use archive footage. He simply interviewed as many people as he could who'd been "involved" (if that's the term) and that's all that the film portrays, as starkly as that. It is, I think, the best film chronicle of the holocaust in its simplicity although the grim World At War episode on the holocaust is also worth a mention.

 

[Sorrel]

The majority of deaths under Stalin occurred during collectivisation and the period of the Ukrainian famine between 1929 - 33 and were the result of incompetence, civil disorder and deliberate neglect. The major difference was that the Nazis were engaged in the deliberate planned extermination of a people.

This isn't true. Stalin certainly intended to cause misery to millions; it wasn't just incompetence.

What about, for just one example, the Tartars who lived in the Crimea? They were ALL deported to Sibera, where the majority of them died. That was pre-planned mass-murder on the part of Stalin, and he is clearly the equal of Hitler in every way. If his system wasn't so incompetent he'd have killed many many more.

As for Holocaust itself, clearly it deserves all its museums. My only problem with it is that the deaths of all the Jews overshadows all the other people that also were attacked in a similar fashion. I would rather museums focused on the crimes themselves rather than on the largest group of the victims.

 

[Dandyman]

In marked contrast to some, notably Steven Spielberg, the director of Shoah decided that it was impossible, even wrong, to try to convey the murder of so many people in film, even choosing not to use archive footage. He simply interviewed as many people as he could who'd been "involved" (if that's the term) and that's all that the film portrays, as starkly as that. It is, I think, the best film chronicle of the holocaust in its simplicity although the grim World At War episode on the holocaust is also worth a mention.

Totally agree. IMHO "Shoah" (Chaos/Annihilation) is a stunning achievement by Claude Lanzmann. I would urge anybody, who has an interest in the subject, to see it.

 

[Brovion]

To paraphrase Enver Hoxha: "The world will not be free until the last Nazi has been strangled with entrails of the last Socialist".

20th Century - what a complete and utter crock of shit. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Amin, Casto, etc etc. Let's hope that no one ever tries to force an ideology on a people again just because they read it in a book or had a Utopian vision. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

 

[Kugull]

Dandyman -
Stalin murdered literally millions of Kulaks (land owning peasants). Some died through famine but most were murdered. He then decided to murder all those who may or may not have have been a threat to him. To my mind an evil bastard.

 

[Yorkie]

Every society has had it's periods of slaughtering people for their race, beliefs or just living in the wrong place.

The thing about the Holocaust is that it took place in such a relatively short period of time and the vast numbers of people that were killed.

 

[The Large One]

If ever anyone is going on a trip to Amsterdam, may I suggest putting the hedonism aside for a couple of hours, and paying visit to Anne Frank House on Prinsengracht in Centraal Amsterdam.

It is very moving and thought-provoking, but not depressing. In an ironic sense, it is quite uplifting to see where and how a young girl coped with the horrors of the Nazi invasion of her home city.

 

[CAFC Matt]

Stalina and Hitler are without a doubt the evilest men the wrld has seen (Saddam Hussain maybe). Why is that all three have a moustache? Is a ritual all evil men have?

 

[The Large One]

I have a moustache. Just ask johnnyboylennon and CTS. And now you will die, my pig friend.

 

[CAFC Matt]

I apologise - but you know what I mean