The EU- the definitive NSC referendum

[Pretty pink fairy]

i am not making it up. Do you seriously think that a seriously integrated eu would mean that the average british person would become indistinguishable from the average portugese or romanian. Is the average texan indistinguishable from the average new yorker - they do live in the same country, after all. That is what i mean by "national identity".

If you take national identity to be about making our own laws and maintaining our own borders, i would accept that is a different matter, but i am not concerned about that.

that's why we're in the shit
regards
DR

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would let the Germans keep it.

We agree on something

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm trying to find a link to the programme I saw that explained this ( either Panaroma or Dispatches ) but can't. Basically Spain, Greece and Italy couldn't / wouldn't conform to the requirements for joining the Euro - spending versus GDP and things like that - and rather than exclude these countries from the Euro the EU decided to ignore the issues. Some commentators believe this was a major contributor to the Euro crisis. Personally I see it as highlighting the the EU's political drive to complete integration regardless of consequences. The Eupropean experiment mustn't be allowed to fail ....... at ANY cost. That's why it doesn't bother the EU that it's accounts haven't been passed by auditors for years - why should it bother them ? After all, THEY run and own Europe.

I'm afraid until you find the evidence I have no alternative but to believe this theory was never existed

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm afraid until you find the evidence I have no alternative but to believe this theory was never existed

Not what I was looking for but it doesn't hold your wonderful German state in high regard and it was written by ..... oh a German news website !

http://www.spiegel.de/international...euro-zone-ignored-its-own-rules-a-790333.html

Note the section entitled - Germany Undermines the Treaty

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not what I was looking for but it doesn't hold your wonderful German state in high regard and it was written by ..... oh a German news website !

http://www.spiegel.de/international...euro-zone-ignored-its-own-rules-a-790333.html

Note the section entitled - Germany Undermines the Treaty

Ah, Der Spiegel. Well known for "hiding and distorting its actual topics and issues by manipulative semantics and rhetoric rather than by report and analysis." I would not believe that rag.

See, you can find anything on the internet to further your argument.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Ah, Der Spiegel. Well known for "hiding and distorting its actual topics and issues by manipulative semantics and rhetoric rather than by report and analysis." I would not believe that rag.

See, you can find anything on the internet to further your argument.

Likewise you can "dis" any evidence that doesn't suit your argument -

 

[Deleted member 22389]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...goods-says-report-by-government-auditors.html

 

[Garfunkaal]

Stay!

We need you in it lol

 

[The Rivet]

Well, I have to admit the result surprised me a tad. That's fine though. I am absolutely looking forward to the European elections and then the big one. Have really enjoyed reading all the debates, the insults, challenges and outright weird views! What will be will be and we all vote according to our beliefs and wants. To those that want replies to previous posts, no chance. All I wanted was debate and that is what I think I got. Hope you enjoyed, or enjoyed to get annoyed, or enjoyed to hate........god bless social media. Thanks everyone for the input to Warsaws vote in. Lastly thanks, Warsaw.

 

[sten_super]

The obfuscation of the debate continues. In George Osbourne's speech today, he's apparently going to say

"As Angela Merkel has pointed out, Europe accounts for just over 7% of the world's population, 25% of its economy, and 50% of global social welfare spending. We can't go on like this."

Which is great, except these numbers tell us absolutely nothing. The fact that we have 25% of the world's 'economy' and only 7% of the population suggests a region doing rather well for itself. Similarly, the fact that we spend a lot on welfare might suggest simply that we've found the right balance and others haven't. None of it implies a region in decline or an unsustainable situation (which is his implication). It's interesting that he's chosen to use (or at least be quoted on) the percentages rather than the numbers - I (genuinely) wonder whether this is because if he quoted the welfare spending figure it would look rather small?

 

[Hotchilidog]

The obfuscation of the debate continues. In George Osbourne's speech today, he's apparently going to say



Which is great, except these numbers tell us absolutely nothing. The fact that we have 25% of the world's 'economy' and only 7% of the population suggests a region doing rather well for itself. Similarly, the fact that we spend a lot on welfare might suggest simply that we've found the right balance and others haven't. None of it implies a region in decline or an unsustainable situation (which is his implication). It's interesting that he's chosen to use (or at least be quoted on) the percentages rather than the numbers - I (genuinely) wonder whether this is because if he quoted the welfare spending figure it would look rather small?

He also does not specify what the welfare spending is on, i.e Pensions for the most part, and in the UK subsidising corporate profits by topping up the wages of those actually IN work.