[News] The Energy crisis

[vegster]

Well, you would be wrong. Spain tops the list for energy prices in recent weeks hence their subsidy plan currently undermining the EU’s policy on reducing carbon emissions.

I'm referring to our close neighbours such as France and Germany, the ones who supply a lot of consumers in the UK via EDF and E.On. Can you find the comparison between what they charge here and their own countries? That would be worth seeing.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Why do people always presume this ? You are way off the mark. There is a global shortage of gas. China has been aggressively buying LNG for months. Couple this with very low storage levels in the EU, post lockdown demand increases and the politics around the new Russian pipeline (Nordstream 2) and we have an enormous price spike. Germany in particular has major problems ahead as it has difficulties satisfying its power demand with its rapid move away from coal. Interesting times.

Please go take a look for yourself. We just seem to be very unlucky.
https://thecurrent.lcp.uk.com/europe

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'm referring to our close neighbours such as France and Germany, the ones who supply a lot of consumers in the UK via EDF and E.On. Can you find the comparison between what they charge here and their own countries? That would be worth seeing.

Unfortunately energy tariffs are notoriously difficult to compare and you would also need to take currency fluctuations into account. Yours is quite a technical question and the answer really is the coverage of events in articles like the one I posted earlier. Perhaps we can deduce something from the short termism of bill subsidies in certain countries paid for from selling carbon permits. The reality of the situation is that there are countries hurting more than the UK at present.

 

[Bry Nylon]

UK food supplies will be under threat long before Christmas, and could start affecting stocks within days, if carbon dioxide shortages continue, the boss of the Iceland supermarket chain has warned.

While concerns have been raised about how CO2 shortages might harm Christmas food supplies as grocers start stocking up for the holidays, Iceland’s managing director, Richard Walker, said the problem – which has been compounded by the shortage of HGV drivers – could affect UK supermarket shelves much sooner.

“This is no longer about whether or not Christmas will be okay, it’s about keeping the wheels turning and the lights on so we can actually get to Christmas,” Walker told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I recognise it comes with big implications for retailers and - everybody who works for them and in their supply chains - but I really appreciated the pared back Christmas we had last year and would be quite happy if 2021 was just the same. I know retailers make some ridiculous percentage of their annual profits in the 3 months around Christmas but I was more than happy to give the yearly mid-winter orgy of spending and consumption a swerve and make Christmas a much more simple 3-day event. Christmas comes with a huge pressure that unless you are spending everything you have and more on food and gifts then you probably aren't having 'the best time ever.'

No, a slimmed down Christmas suits me fine and is what I'll be endeavouring to do this year anyway, regardless of the availability of goods and fuel etc. It's time for a broad re-set of our priorities anyway as a general population, so if this energy crisis is the catalyst for that then so be it and I reckon many people will be secretly quite relieved.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Please go take a look for yourself. We just seem to be very unlucky.
https://thecurrent.lcp.uk.com/europe

I’m sorry but you cannot simply look at that diagram and assume it has anything to do with Brexit. The UK has a very high dependence on gas (price through the roof) and renewables (unreliable) due to a successful phasing out of coal and lack of investment in nuclear. France uses a lot of nuclear power etc etc.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I’m sorry but you cannot simply look at that diagram and assume it has anything to do with Brexit. The UK has a very high dependence on gas (price through the roof) and renewables (unreliable) due to a successful phasing out of coal and lack of investment in nuclear. France uses a lot of nuclear power etc etc.

Fair point


"The problem is that we do not participate in the “Day Ahead” energy auctions that these interconnectors rely on to efficiently operate. This leads to a dramatic reduction in the use of power via the interconnectors and a loss of the ability to get cheaper electricity as we then use coal power to balance demand. See this report from European Energy Consultants, EnAppSys. It sounds completely stupid and incompetent given the move to increased electrification of the UK market does it not. We could have left the EU and kept these life critical elements in place. And of course we have gas interconnectors as well, and (you guessed it) the same problem since much of our energy generation is from gas."
Source https://westenglandbylines.co.uk/energy-prices-rise-after-uk-leaves-eu-energy-markets/

"Additionally, earlier in the week an outage occurred on the GB-France interconnector (IFA1), taking another 500MW out of the market. Extremely tight market conditions in Ireland meant that electricity trading on the Moyle interconnector was also suspended, preventing any exports to GB, while the Nemo interconnector from Belgium was also not fully importing. Finally, some flexible assets identified that the market would be very tight, and opted not to enter the wholesale market, instead chancing that they’d be needed at higher prices in the balancing mechanism."
Source https://www.lcp.uk.com/our-viewpoint/2021/09/what-is-causing-the-record-prices-in-the-gb-power-market/

I doubt this will persuade you of the significance here, but it may help you to at least understand why people may want to ask the question.

 

[GT49er]

I don't understand this CO2 thing. One minute they're saying there's too much of it, now apparently there's a shortage! Make your ****ing minds up.

Probably simplistic, but yes, that thought did occur to me too! Do we need to find a way to collect cow farts, or can we find a useful way of capturing emissions from old diesel cars still chugging about?

 

[beorhthelm]

Please go take a look for yourself. We just seem to be very unlucky.
https://thecurrent.lcp.uk.com/europe

thats the spot market prices. our local market has had additional issues effecting peak demand prices, the underlying problem is average price is up across the board.

 

[Randy McNob]

Socialism bailing out capitalism yet again, in the end we all pay more and therefore taxpayers subsidising corporates and private shareholders (in most cases foreign owned) . Then we vote for more of the same because parties funded by the same corporates tell you socialism doesn't work

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Fair point


"The problem is that we do not participate in the “Day Ahead” energy auctions that these interconnectors rely on to efficiently operate. This leads to a dramatic reduction in the use of power via the interconnectors and a loss of the ability to get cheaper electricity as we then use coal power to balance demand. See this report from European Energy Consultants, EnAppSys. It sounds completely stupid and incompetent given the move to increased electrification of the UK market does it not. We could have left the EU and kept these life critical elements in place. And of course we have gas interconnectors as well, and (you guessed it) the same problem since much of our energy generation is from gas."
Source https://westenglandbylines.co.uk/energy-prices-rise-after-uk-leaves-eu-energy-markets/

"Additionally, earlier in the week an outage occurred on the GB-France interconnector (IFA1), taking another 500MW out of the market. Extremely tight market conditions in Ireland meant that electricity trading on the Moyle interconnector was also suspended, preventing any exports to GB, while the Nemo interconnector from Belgium was also not fully importing. Finally, some flexible assets identified that the market would be very tight, and opted not to enter the wholesale market, instead chancing that they’d be needed at higher prices in the balancing mechanism."
Source https://www.lcp.uk.com/our-viewpoint/2021/09/what-is-causing-the-record-prices-in-the-gb-power-market/

I doubt this will persuade you of the significance here, but it may help you to at least understand why people may want to ask the question.

You seem to be assuming that the extremely volatile day ahead market is the driver of household electricity bills. It isn’t. Energy companies buy in the less volatile forward market and even then actual wholesale energy prices only make up about 35 % of a bill.

 

[LamieRobertson]

no. they are talking about bailing out the smaller providers, because they dont bother to hedge properly, cant absorb the price changes. the larger providers will be expected to manage situation better. like last time this happened (about 10 yrs ago), they'll run at a loss while people bitch about how much profit they're making.

Which is more to the point

 

[CheeseRolls]

thats the spot market prices. our local market has had additional issues effecting peak demand prices, the underlying problem is average price is up across the board.

Okay so like its really complicated and difficult to compare, but some experts (we don't like them do we?) have found a way of making comparisons, which currently shows us in last place. Understandably there are a lot of reasons for this, including the wrong kind of wind. What rotten luck.

 

[Berty23]

This is just another thing that is not solely down to brexit but brexit has clearly made it worse. Just because other factors are involved (as they are with driver shortages and goods held up) it doesn’t mean that brexit is irrelevant. Brexit has made us like an over handicapped horse in a jump race. Yes we could still do okay but it is being made much harder.

 

[Notters]

In the context of events in world markets that is a very silly comment. You are not the only one trying to shoehorn Brexit into this thread and it does rather illustrate a lack of knowledge of the subject.

Shoehorn! It's very much a Brexit issue. Of course not solely, but largely.

My main argument against Brexit was energy security FFS.

 

[Randy McNob]

Shoehorn! It's very much a Brexit issue. Of course not solely, but largely.

My main argument against Brexit was energy security FFS.

Taking back control = State subsidising Brexit failure. They'll spin it as "investment" and sell it as a win

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Shoehorn! It's very much a Brexit issue. Of course not solely, but largely.

My main argument against Brexit was energy security FFS.

It really isn’t. I trade these markets but I can see the desire to continue a six year old debate is just too tempting for some, so never mind the facts.

 

[beorhthelm]

Socialism bailing out capitalism yet again, in the end we all pay more and therefore taxpayers subsidising corporates and private shareholders (in most cases foreign owned) . Then we vote for more of the same because parties funded by the same corporates tell you socialism doesn't work

thats what happens when we change the market artificially, creating inefficiencies and broken forecast models. in the old days we simply build power to meet demand. now it has to be the right sort of power and carbon price distorts further. then we subsidise small entrants to be suppliers who cant manage outside narrow range (too small and too short term).

 

[beorhthelm]

Shoehorn! It's very much a Brexit issue. Of course not solely, but largely.

My main argument against Brexit was energy security FFS.

you understand that there is not any threat to supply? its the pricing thats a problem. we could maybe insist on Norway selling gas at last years prices, though i doubt they would in or out of EU.

 

[CheeseRolls]

It really isn’t. I trade these markets but I can see the desire to continue a six year old debate is just too tempting for some, so never mind the facts.

We all consume these markets and it isn't going very well.

 

[studio150]

Okay so like its really complicated and difficult to compare, but some experts (we don't like them do we?) have found a way of making comparisons, which currently shows us in last place. Understandably there are a lot of reasons for this, including the wrong kind of wind. What rotten luck.

One stand out country