* * * The Ashes - Official Thread * * *

[Lady Whistledown]

Amazing to see how the mentality of the Australian players has changed from what it used to be.

They just interviewed Mike Hussey and asked what he thought of their score. He responded that he didn't think they were completely out of it (emphasis on the completely). They actually made a considerably better score than they looked like getting at one point, and ten years ago they'd have fancied their chances even with only 268 on the board, yet these days they're actually entertaining the notion that they might be "out of it" with that, on Day 1.

 

[8ace]

Amazing to see how the mentality of the Australian players has changed from what it used to be.

They just interviewed Mike Hussey and asked what he thought of their score. He responded that he didn't think they were completely out of it (emphasis on the completely). They actually made a considerably better score than they looked like getting at one point, and ten years ago they'd have fancied their chances even with only 268 on the board, yet these days they're actually entertaining the notion that they might be "out of it" with that, on Day 1.

They made more runs in the first innings today than they did in the corresponding test four years ago.

 

[Pavilionaire]

In terms of what is a par score for a team put in to bat and with England having to bat last I think the Aussies would have been comfortable with 320. In that scenario they'd have batted through Day 1 and into Day 2. They have to believe that their bowlers will come good at some stage because England's top order have never maintained this pace throughout a 5 test series Down Under before.

The big wicket tomorrow is Strauss. No one will want to win this test more than him, and he will want to make a big hundred and let others bat around him.

With Strauss there's a great sense of gameplan, purpose, preparation. I've been very impressed and the stage is set for him to enter the pantheon of England's greats if he can bat for 2 sessions tomorrow. An outside bet for Sports Personality Of The Year?

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Yes I would say something around 350 would be par. Although having had them at 69/5 I think we let them off the hook a bit. 268 is still a pretty poor total and 450+ will put us well in control.

You can see it as letting them off the hook or you can see it as having bowled well above ourselves. However, the lower order scoring indicates more about the pitch with the older ball than it does about our bowlers going off the boil (which I don't think they did). Once the ball has aged and the pitch dried out as it now has, could be a lot of runs to be had.

Will be up for 5am tomorrow again hoping to see us no more than two down.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

In terms of what is a par score for a team put in to bat and with England having to bat last I think the Aussies would have been comfortable with 320.

Who says we'll be batting last?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

In terms of what is a par score for a team put in to bat and with England having to bat last I think the Aussies would have been comfortable with 320. In that scenario they'd have batted through Day 1 and into Day 2. They have to believe that their bowlers will come good at some stage because England's top order have never maintained this pace throughout a 5 test series Down Under before.

The big wicket tomorrow is Strauss. No one will want to win this test more than him, and he will want to make a big hundred and let others bat around him.

With Strauss there's a great sense of gameplan, purpose, preparation. I've been very impressed and the stage is set for him to enter the pantheon of England's greats if he can bat for 2 sessions tomorrow.

Sky also suggested that Strauss has only scored runs in second innings for quite some time, and tends to miss out first innings, so it'll be interesting to see if he can hang around.

Another fascinating fact (well I thought so) is that a number of England's top order batsmen are in a good position to break the record for centuries scored for their country. You don't tend to think of any of them as genuine greats of the English game just yet, but the record stands at only 22 (I think- shared by Geoffrey Boycott, Colin Cowdrey and Walter Hammond). Strauss, Cook, Pietersen are all within a few centuries of that, and are young enough to get past it during their careers.

Mind you, Ponting has 39 already, so the English record itself isn't actually that high.

 

[simmo]

We have let them off the hook I feel, should have got them out for well under 200. There bowlers will be on a high now and, assuming we bat today, they could get a couple of ours out which will swing the match their way

Edit: we will bat today 268 all out

It is not really letting them off the hook. Having this present Australia side 68/5 is I think is not unusual, their top order is all over the place (esp. now Kattich is injured, him and Watson at least gave them some sort of solidity at the top).

The two best batsman Australia have at the moment are undoubtedly Hussey and Haddin whom yet again steadied their ship and are the "key" wickets for us to get. It is also much easier for these two to bat when the ball gets softer (25 overs+). Recoveries that these two make (and also other partnerships they have after) are to really be expected and should not come as a shock and it is not us letting them off the hook.

Every commentator be they Ozzie or English have said this is a good batting wicket. We shall see tomorrow whether we have let them off the hook getting 268 or if that was a brilliant bowling (and catching) performance by the boys in blue.

 

[simmo]

The big wicket tomorrow is Strauss. No one will want to win this test more than him, and he will want to make a big hundred and let others bat around him.

The big wicket for Australia tomorrow is our whole top order (excl Collingwood!)

 

[Danny-Boy]

It is not really letting them off the hook. Having this present Australia side 68/5 is I think is not unusual, their top order is all over the place (esp. now Kattich is injured, him and Watson at least gave them some sort of solidity at the top).

The two best batsman Australia have at the moment are undoubtedly Hussey and Haddin whom yet again steadied their ship and are the "key" wickets for us to get. It is also much easier for these two to bat when the ball gets softer (25 overs+). Recoveries that these two make (and also other partnerships they have after) are to really be expected and should not come as a shock and it is not us letting them off the hook.

Every commentator be they Ozzie or English have said this is a good batting wicket. We shall see tomorrow whether we have let them off the hook getting 268 or if that was a brilliant bowling (and catching) performance by the boys in blue.

Agree with this. The difference in morale is reflected in our catching and fielding, an area in the past where the Aussies have usually trumped us.

Having fielded in the slips a few years ago, I know what a morale-boost it is to the side when you have a good slip cordon. Strauss, Collingwood and Swann seem to be untouchable (or rather unpassable) at the moment.

I reckon if the Aussies lose this game, Punter will be sacked as skipper by Greg Chappell. Whether he would be retained for his batting alone though...

 

[Barrel of Fun]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/england/engine/records/batting/most_hundreds_career.html?class=1;id=1;type=team

Trescothick would have spanked the record by now, if he hadn't retired.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I reckon if the Aussies lose this game, Punter will be sacked as skipper by Greg Chappell. Whether he would be retained for his batting alone though...

I think I mentioned this earlier: I can see why they'd be thinking of ditching him but who would they replace him with though?

Firstly, the vice-captain Clarke is in even worse form than Ponting, and there are few other viable candidates. Haddin has been mentioned. Not sure if Hussey would be considered. And secondly, whoever captains the side is still going to have the same sub-standard bowlers to work with.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

My favourite bit of the Aussie innings was Anderson and Johnson having a few words to each other about something while Anderson walked back to his mark. Jimmy prompting started his run up and bowled the batsman with a yorker and just turned to face Johnson with his arms out as if to say "Bring it on". Great stuff

 

[sten_super]

I reckon if the Aussies lose this game, Punter will be sacked as skipper by Greg Chappell. Whether he would be retained for his batting alone though...

I think sacking him mid-series would be a mistake, as there's no obvious candidate to replace him (I know Clarke has been touted for a while, but he is horribly out of touch as well and I'm not sure it would help his game to have it dumped on him mid-series). Historically Aussie skippers don't hang around once they lose the captaincy, and realistically his powers are on the wane now anyway so I don't think he'll hang around afterwards.

Looking forward a couple of years, Ponting, Hussey and Haddin will all have retired. The team will presumably look something like this;

Hughes
Ferguson
Clarke
Khawaja
Watson
Smith
Paine
Johnson
Siddle
Hilfenhaus
Hazelwood

Compare that to the current team and it's lack of experience is pretty scary. Surely these selectors have got to be for the chop after the series given their horrible lack of foresight?

 

[Gwylan]

I think I mentioned this earlier: I can see why they'd be thinking of ditching him but who would they replace him with though?

Firstly, the vice-captain Clarke is in even worse form than Ponting, and there are few other viable candidates. Haddin has been mentioned. Not sure if Hussey would be considered. And secondly, whoever captains the side is still going to have the same sub-standard bowlers to work with.

If they stick with the same team then Punter is the only option. If they lose this though they could go back to Go and start with a new team and new captain and select Cameron White as skipper and a whole new team (Hughes, Hussey, Haddin, Smith and, possibly, a couple of the fast bowlers would keep their place). Give them a chance to pick the likes of Marsh, Ferguson, Khawaja, George, Pattinson, Hazlewood (when he's fit) and be told that they have a place for a series or two.

I see little point in continuing with a team that looks beaten from the off - and I think we'll have won this test by the 4th day. As I said earlier, the selectors have cocked this up completely.

 

[highway61]

As is always the case each new session can be seen as vital to one or the other sides, and these first tests are no different. personally I am really optimistic about retaining the Ashes, whilst a part of me also keeps expecting the Aussies to come up with a couple of good sessions to turn things around. That fear clearly comes from previous experiences since listening to my first TMS in early 60's! Thus far our top order has excelled itself apart from day one at First test, and am really hopeful of another good day tomorrow. This is a great opportunity to maybe get something like 450 plus, and then to expose there fragile top order. so its fingers crossed that Strauss et al can continue the good work. Would be fantastic if we took field on Boxing Day already with the urn.

 

[Pavilionaire]

With this Aussie squad the phrase "you can't polish a turd" comes to mind. They simply haven't been able to replace the quality they once had.

I feel a bit sorry for Ponting in that regard. 39 centuries is 17 more than the best an Englishman has managed. His captaincy's not all that, but who else is there?

 

[Jonno]

Cameron White is a class batsman, I find it strange he barely gets a mention for the test side

 

[BensGrandad]

The pundits who have all been good batsmen in their time all kept on saying about the ball gets very old and soft in Australia very quickly and thus makes it easier for the lower order batsmen to score runs which augers well for the likes of Prior if we get to him before declaring.

 

[Marc]

that was QUALITY last night, did'nt last long enough until my eyes shut though so need to watch the highlights later to see the last two wickets. Probably get up early tomorrow morning instead of staying up late but we'll see.

 

[Marc]

Swannys diary part 5, watching now!