Teacher Strike

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm a chemistry teacher. You think 30 council estate kids with bottles of acid is no responsibility?

We ALL have responsibilities on our job, I was also head of year, with responsibility for child protection within my year group.

Whatsmore, even in the classroom, if I **** up and the kids fail their exams it affects their whole lives.

Don't believe I said that, I said an aircraft engineer has more responsibility, of course teaching has a high responsibility. As head of year I'm sure your then were qualified to gain extra pay in line with your greater duties and responsibility. And what's more if you f**k up in the classroom and the kids fail their exams you would be considered an all round poor standard of teacher, because you would be unable over an extended period to teach well. An aircraft engineer with an otherwise impeccable record only has to make one, just one small error of either judgement or in his work to cause thousands of deaths and ruin an untold amount of others lives. A different perspective, same reason train drivers are paid well.

 

[elbowpatches]

I was refering to the new agreement helping to clear out the dead wood. if they bring in performance related pay I will probably join you in leaving the profession.

Already happening. New pay and conditions for us approved by Cambridgeshire going to unions over the summer.

 

[elbowpatches]

Agreed wild generalisations about whole professions, short on fact and long on prejudice, are more than a little annoying aren't they.

Good post.

Sums up governmental thinking on the education profession.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Brilliant.

Clearly it isn't. But you and your ilk will always use dodgy and isolated examples to prove your spurious point.

It was Friday night and he was angry. I suspect he may have had a drink.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. It was an observation.

 

[BadFish]

We don't get 13 weeks holiday a year though....

Just read you later post. carry on.

 

[BadFish]

How many of these "training days" do they have in state schools now? It seems every other month they just shut the schools down. They never needed them when I (moi) was at school.

As has been discussed over and over on this thread when you were at school there were 190 school days in the year.....now there are 190 school days in the year. So I would like to take this opportunity to thank UK teachers for undertaking their training (which assists in improving outcomes for children) in their holiday time.

Thanks teachers good on you for not taking any teaching time away from the students!

 

[BadFish]

We work hard to gain the high level of qualifications that are necessary to be a teacher. We do this because we want to make a difference. We care about what we do, and most of us love working with children, and take enormous pleasure from helping them to progress and develop.

Many of us chose teaching when we could have gone into much better paid professions. My degree was in Civil Engineering, but I decided that I'd go into a profession that is substantially worse off, financially. I accepted that this was the case.

Since then, the government has targeted us again and again. You mentioned our pension scheme earlier - a scheme that has always been successful, and paid for itself. Yes, it is better than a lot of schemes, but its existance was one of the reasons that I, and many like me, decided that I could justify going into a profession that offered wages that were nowhere near those that I could have earned. And why should there be a race to the bottom? Other pension schemes need to be improved, if anything.

I love my job, and do it well. I don't want to do anything else. But I'd be lying if I told you that I hadn't seriously considered doing so.

Spot on Pogue.

It seems a shame that you have to justify your choice like this.I wonder if people in other lines of work would be prepared to present a list of the perks in their job and we can all decide if it is okay for them to enjoy them. I have heard about things called felxitime, company cars, long lunches on account (a lunch break would do me rather than stuffing down a sandwhich while i mark work or supervise lunchtime activities) and tolls and equipment you need to do your job provded by your company rather than buying them yourself. I suspect those who enjoy some of these perks even get to choose when they have their holidays so they can save a bit of cash by not taking them during school holidays.

Teaching: The only job where you steal stationary from home to take to work.

Teaching like every other line of work has it's pros and cons but no other is constantly attacked or constantly blamed for all of societies ills like teaching. Sorry Soulman but the striking argument isn't doing it for me. The level of anger and hatred aimed at teachers on this website cannot be explained purely by the fact that some strike sometimes to improve pay and conditions (conditions which would probably improve the education of the students, Finland enjoys the best education system in the world and has less face to face teaching time provided by better qualified (more training!!) and better paid teachers.)

 

[BadFish]

I appreciate where you're coming from but surely there must be plenty of regulations, processes and checks in place to prevent you unintentionally ****ing up? There must be. And as for responsibility; surely the education of the nation must rank very very highly?

Especially when it is a scapegoat for any and all ills experienced by that nation.

 

[BadFish]

A very good post. I think we have all been targeted over the years. There is not much left to target in my profession, which is why yours and other public sector jobs are getting the hit.
There was some numpty who came out with the good old standard "Tory right wing knuckle draggers" comment. I am working class, have never voted Tory, will never vote Labour again. As i tried to state, i am well aware what teachers go through, i realise that there are good and bad teachers, i just feel that some teachers seem to whinge on about how hard it is for them, when although it could be better, the benefits compared with some professions is quite good really.
I do feel that over the years the teachers are the first to complain, protest and threaten strike action and the sympathy from some is wearing thin.

I don't know about us whinging on about it. If you take this thread as a microcosm of the situation you will see that we have and are reacting to criticism leveled at us by the OP. Most of us were reticent about getting involved in this thread but decided to anyway to defend our colleagues against the nonsense being spouted (these were my intentions anyway). How defending our professional reputations and trying to combat some of the ignorant uintruths levelled at us equates in your mind to 'whinging about how hard it is' I don't really understand (we all love the job which is why we do it instead of earning more money elsewhere). But then you also critise us for trying to improve the conditions of our work which will enable us to do our job more effectively and provide better outcomes for the students (i deliberately left out the pay part because I have never stopped work for more pay (despite what the government and media will tell you) as I think our pay is reasonable when you take into account the holidays we enjoy, the joy our job brings and the fact that we are paid by taxes.

 

[BadFish]

Already happening. New pay and conditions for us approved by Cambridgeshire going to unions over the summer.

I am in Australia, I am sure that we will follow you down this road as both sides of government seem to think it will be a good idea.My school is making noises about sharing any bonuses between all staff but I am not sure how and if they will be able to do that. I work in a primary school which is from top to bottom staff to students all about collaboration, sharing and team work. This goes as far as sharing our successes and our failures. I feel that Performance based pay goes against every ideology we hold dear and use to benefit the children's education.

I also don't understand how they will quantify and reward the work we do outside the core curriculum. Two years ago I spend a lot of time and effort trying to improve the attitude to school of a boy in my class. I worked with him through various problems like anger management, social skills and engaging in dangerous behaviour at the will of other students. I had many meeting with parents (who were dismissive and disinterested) and tried to get to the bottom of his issues. By the end of the year I got somewhere, i gave him coping skills and anger management skills, his parents got him diagnosed with ADHD and Aspergers and we got to the bottom of much of his anger (his parents were both accountants and works long hours, he went to after school care every night,disliked the lack of structure there and hated the fact he didn't see his parents much. His parents rearranged their schedules and things improved for him.

So good for me....I am so great.......not what I am trying to say at all because teachers do this stuff day in, day out and they make a difference to kids who are teetering on the edge of taking a dangerous path. I haven't saved this kids, he still has his issues and his terrible days and he still comes to me to help him through them, which I do happily. My point is that does all this work get recognized as 'performance' my understanding is that performance is going to be assessed on standard tests in Maths and English. This means that I am being encouraged to spend my time further improving Maths and English scores instead of helping this kids with the basics he needs so he can learn. So if it is not up to me to try and help this boy and keep him out of prison when he is older then who is it up to?

 

[rosscrudos]

Performance pay is indeed balls. Next time I'm in Victoria, I would genuinely like to visit the school you work at badfish, I seriously need some proof that there are good schools and good teachers out there.

 

[BadFish]

Performance pay is indeed balls. Next time I'm in Victoria, I would genuinely like to visit the school you work at badfish, I seriously need some proof that there are good schools and good teachers out there.

Where do you live Ross? You would be more than welcome to come and visit my school.

 

[rosscrudos]

Thanks, I live in Newcastle now, and don't get back that often. If I do get a week back in Melbourne, I will take you up on that offer.

 

[BadFish]

Thanks, I live in Newcastle now, and don't get back that often. If I do get a week back in Melbourne, I will take you up on that offer.

Please do. Just drop me a PM. May I ask what is wrong with the school you work in and the schools you are experiencing up there?

I am interested because although I have never been to Newcastle I have heard really good things about it.....and read a couple of things comparing Geelong to it.

 

[rosscrudos]

Newcastle is actually a pretty cool place, I must admit I wasn't expecting much when I moved here but I've been pleasantly surprised. They have this thing called renew newcastle, where empty shops are given to local artists and crafts people for free, which is cool. They have some amazing pubs, and a descent music and art scene. Good coffee shops too

The bad schools were in Melbourne, I've only worked in one up here but it is also terrible! (The job market here is really tight and due to NSW rules I can't work full time in a school due to not being a permanent resident). First school I worked at was being merged with an other school, the teachers did not give a ****. It was a low socio economic area, and the kids had lots of problems. The area had, over the years, moved from being a largely italian community to a lebanese one. Teachers would openly say in the staffroom, 'this used to be a good school, till the muslims came in'. The only good person was a social worker, who the kids loved....she got a new job and it was decided that she didn't need replacing! Seriously it was a ****ing awful place. Oh, and the assistant principal thought it would be a good idea to send all the grade 6 girls on a course to learn how to put on make up.

The school I'm teaching in Newcastle is again a very low socio economic area, and does have some good teachers. However, they stream maths in ALL years! That's right, ever preps are put into diffferent maths groups and are told 'you are shit at maths'! They have a whole school policy of all the kids working though the same maths book (each day every student has to complete one page). It's utterly ****ed.

 

[sten_super]

Apologies for bouncing an old thread, but my wife, who is a head of department at a secondary school, is in a bit of a quandary about these strikes, and I'd be interested in some NSC opinions.

She is part of NASUWT, and they are having a regional strike in mid October, in addition to the national strike supposedly taking place in December. She has been trying to find the (genuine) reasons that the strike is being proposed, and has come up short (at least on convincing reasons).

The published NASUWT justifications (see here and here) seem to be split into two distinct areas; on the one hand, the changes to pay and conditions (pension contributions, etc.) and on the other hand the workload (cuts in staff levels, increased paperwork, reduced holidays, etc.). To me (and Mrs sten_super) the latter is a lot more convincing than the former. The truth, however, seems to that realistically they want to strike about the ridiculous changes that Gove is bringing in to the curriculum, however they probably aren't allowed to do that, so instead they've found these other convenient reasons. The problem, as far as I can see it, is that these published reasons are generally pretty unconvincing (particularly when compared to the situation in the private sector) and don't do their cause any favours - it only serves to turn the general public against the teachers.

So, to cut a long story short, what are the views of NSC? Are the teachers justified? Is Gove a complete and utter bellend? Or are the teachers living in a 1970s-inspired cloud cuckoo land? Should they be much more upfront about why they are unhappy (if, indeed, it isn't to do with pay and conditions)? Are there other ways that the teachers could express their unhappiness? And would Gove listen?

 

[CorgiRegisteredFriend]

The last time the unions encouraged teachers to strike it was poorly supported by the profession. I predict that this will happen again on 17th October. It is a militant minority that fuel such action. If you speak to your average teacher you will find that they are not particularly 'unhappy' and recognize that the economy has been suffering and many people have had to take pay freezes and cuts as a result.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

In short :

Gove IS a bellend
Teachers shouldn't strike - it amazes me that parents can get fined for taking their children out of school for a short period and teachers are up in arms when they do yet it's OK for teachers to strike for a day or so.

If the teachers want to hit back then refuse to do things like paperwork etc that has less of an effect on pupils but still, over time, will bring the school processes to a grinding halt.

 

[sten_super]

Teachers shouldn't strike - it amazes me that parents can get fined for taking their children out of school for a short period and teachers are up in arms when they do yet it's OK for teachers to strike for a day or so.

If the teachers want to hit back then refuse to do things like paperwork etc that has less of an effect on pupils but still, over time, will bring the school processes to a grinding halt.

The strikes are for me great examples of poor communication, from both the unions and teachers themselves. When they happen the general public have no idea why they are taking place (i.e. what the issues are) and it looks like the teachers are just enjoying a day off. Two years ago (I think), when they had their last strike, my wife and a couple of her friends came into Cambridge, spent about one hour at a rally in the middle of town, then went and did a bit of shopping before going to the pub at about 3pm. It's frankly bloody ridiculous and I told her as much - I said that they'd be much better off standing outside the school (whether it's open or not) and inviting the local press along. That way they can make it clear that they've attended their place of work (i.e. they aren't in the pub enjoying a day off) and are refusing to work due to reasons x,y,z, as well as being able to clearly communicate this to the local newspapers, etc.

On your second point - I believe that they are supposed to have been undertaking 'action short of a strike) for almost two years, which I assume to mean working to rule. However in practice I'm not sure how feasible that is - without spending their own time filling in paperwork, marking, lesson planning etc. I'm not sure whether the school would be able to function in any meaningful sense. Perhaps that's what they need to genuinely do - it certainly wouldn't take long for things to grind to a halt!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Strangely I don't have a problem with teachers ( or anyone else who is striking ) spending the day in the pub on a strike day. They are withdrawing their labour and won't get paid so their time is exactly that - their time.

With the second point I was suggesting things such as no out of school clubs, no register taking, no writing reports, no filling in the lesson plans ( my experience is that a teacher can teach a leasson without one ), no assisting OFSTED etc.