[Football] Tactics

[APACHE]

The whole thing is a shambles at the moment, even after 2 weeks to prepare. Defence- error prone and slow to move the ball forward, counted 11 passes once yesterday to get the ball out of our half. M/field- not postive with the ball,ie don't go forward and commit the opposition to stop them and are not creating next to nothing in chances for the forwards. Forwards- no chances so no goals, just alot of effort. We've changed the manager but it's not getting any better.

 

[Uncle C]

The whole thing is a shambles at the moment, even after 2 weeks to prepare. Defence- error prone and slow to move the ball forward, counted 11 passes once yesterday to get the ball out of our half. M/field- not postive with the ball,ie don't go forward and commit the opposition to stop them and are not creating next to nothing in chances for the forwards. Forwards- no chances so no goals, just alot of effort. We've changed the manager but it's not getting any better.

What worries me most is that Hyppia openly said he disliked the International break as he had very little that needed working on with the team. This coupled with his statement that he didn't know what went wrong yesterday makes me nervous.

When managers admit they are clueless they normally loose their job shortly afterwards.

 

[Pantani]

Hyypia's system, whilst appearing attacking, actually fails to get us ahead in games. We have scored the first goal twice in the league this season. That is pretty appalling when our system seems to be set in a way that is asking our opposition, can you cope with this?

The full backs providing width is a valid tactic, lots of teams do this now. It should allow for the two wider forwards to get in to the box more to support the central striker. Somehow when we play this way we neither have enough width from the full backs, the wide forwards don't seem to get in to the box and even the central striker does not appear to be in the box either. The non covering midfielder, yesterday I'm not sure who it was supposed to be, should also be able to get in to the box.

Defensively it seems all we are doing, is at best exposing central midfielders to pacy wingers, and at worst leaving our centre backs with no help from wide defenders at all. Also we have three central midfielders aided by two 'wide' forwards, we should be winning the lions share of the ball in there but that does not seem to be the case either.

Finally, and for me the most damning aspect of Hyypia's tactics and ability as a manager is the timing of our two most inept performances. Yesterday and Brentford away were in my opinion our worst showings this season, the common denominator? They were both the first game after an international break, so two weeks uninterrupted training with our manager results in the two worst performances of the season. I'm not normally an impatient sort of football fan but Hyypia has to go, he has shown nothing to indicate that he can turn this around as far as I am concerned.

 

[Brighton TID]

I thought we were taking too many long shots and not trying to get into their penalty area. Also, I thought that in the absence of the departed Buckley and without the injured Bruno we had nobody out wide on the right. So this gives their defence and easy time as it is not stretched. Ideally (I think) our wide player on the right should be pacey as we would then have the option of passing into the empty space on the wing for our one and only playing winger to run on to (if we had one!).

Nail on the head. We do have an answer to this though. Lualua. But he gets played on the left side of the three, presumably so he can cut inside and shoot. Yesterday, we needed him down the right, getting to the byline and pulling the ball back low and hard across goal. Tactically, we're not getting the best out of kaz.

 

[Kevlar]

When the FBs push up, the midfielders are supposed to slot in. Potentially this is fine if you have the personnel, but we don't.

Both Gardner and JFC are too slow to fill in at FB, and why Hyypia cannot see it, God only knows. The only player who is athletic enough to do it is Ince and he is on the bench most of the time.

but even if they were you still have another holding midfielder hola
so if Gardner and JFC are filling in we have a distinct lack of midfield
attacking support.
I would not say the problem lays with defensive midfield.
First priority if you want to play the Sami way is two amazing full backs
ala everton's Coleman and Baines .
But it would be even better if his pride was swallowed and a system
that is not delivering results abandoned

 

[Gordon Bennett]

It worries me that most of us could put together a decent scouting report on how to beat Brighton and yet our management team can't seem to see the problem(s).

The system clearly isn't working in various different ways but the glaring (and consistent) problem seems to be the role of the full backs and the implications this has for both our forward and defensive play. If you ignore for a minute Greer's poor pass yesterday and whether or not he was being fouled in the lead up to the first goal and the question of Stockdale's parry for the second, the one thing that is noticeable with both goals yesterday was the absence of a defender in what (and feel free to call me old fashioned here) might be loosely termed a full-back position. Instead there was an attacker with more time than Dr. Who trundling towards our goal with the ball at his feet.

It feels to be me as though there are now too many managers over-analysing their tactics and making things too complicated. Could something a little less 'clever' be what is needed for the players we have at our disposal?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

but even if they were you still have another holding midfielder hola
so if Gardner and JFC are filling in we have a distinct lack of midfield
attacking support.
I would not say the problem lays with defensive midfield.
First priority if you want to play the Sami way is two amazing full backs
ala everton's Coleman and Baines .
But it would be even better if his pride was swallowed and a system
that is not delivering results abandoned

Don't agree. Both Bruno and Bennett are more than adequate offensively, it's the insufficient cover that is the issue, as has been proven at Brentford and yesterday.

The bottom line is you cannot have midfielders filling in when FBs are caught upfield.

I do agree he should abandon it.

 

[neilbard]

4-4-2 with natural wingers and a target man! yeah the game may have moved on since the 70's but it is still hard to defend against!
This unexciting euro crap were watching with our defenders over exposed at times is a recipe for disaster if we continue with this we will be rooted to the foot of the table fact!!!

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Yeah, yeah, nice try, Percy. Try and explain it every way you can, I know the truth.

Official (league) Match threads started by you: 6
Won 0
Drawn 4
Lost 2
For 3
Against 5

You are the reason we can't get a win. Not Sami, not the tactics, not the players, not the lack of atmosphere, or the refs, or our business in the transfer market. It's all down to you.

I knew there was a simple explanation. I was worried it was my fault as they scored when I turned the stream on but I feel better now.

 

[Napier's Knee]

Genuine question for the statisticians - how many goals have we can conceded within say two minutes of us scoring (ahem) or having a good attack break down? I reckon it's a lot and this, combined with the incredible number of individual mistakes, suggests that something is going wrong mentally - team-wide inability to concentrate. Same happen at Leverkusen? As today goes on, more I'm climbing off the fence.

 

[perseus]

Nail on the head. We do have an answer to this though. Lualua. But he gets played on the left side of the three, presumably so he can cut inside and shoot. Yesterday, we needed him down the right, getting to the byline and pulling the ball back low and hard across goal. Tactically, we're not getting the best out of kaz.

Trouble is Kazenga has not got the sprint speed to rub into gaps. I think the central role of Lualua has been a moderate success. He gets involved in play, but bottles it before he get into the penalty areas. He has still got the acceleration, but this (in the Peter Ward style) works better when closer to goal. With his change of direction and ability with both feet I want to see him as second striker for the first 67 minutes and then when Paddy comes on for the last 23 minutes Kaz can drift wide.

QUIZ: Who has got the fastest sprint speed in the Albion side now that Buckley has gone? He is almost bound to be right-footed as almost all the team is.

 

[Rookie]

When the FBs push up, the midfielders are supposed to slot in. Potentially this is fine if you have the personnel, but we don't.

Both Gardner and JFC are too slow to fill in at FB, and why Hyypia cannot see it, God only knows. The only player who is athletic enough to do it is Ince and he is on the bench most of the time.

But its not when the full backs are pushing up, they start the game pushed up and occasionally revert back to their defensive role. The midfield are then asked to cover the full backs which leaves huge gaps in the middle or if they cover that space the space is left out wide. It also limits the midfield and their ability to get forward and support the front players.
Once teams cut out the cross field ball (which we seem quite good at) we are very easy to defend against and then the opposition attack down the wing exploiting the space.

 

[fleet]

But its not when the full backs are pushing up, they start the game pushed up and occasionally revert back to their defensive role. The midfield are then asked to cover the full backs which leaves huge gaps in the middle or if they cover that space the space is left out wide. It also limits the midfield and their ability to get forward and support the front players.
Once teams cut out the cross field ball (which we seem quite good at) we are very easy to defend against and then the opposition attack down the wing exploiting the space.

Agreed - we are very predictable and slow in attack and very vulnerable in defence, relying on Gardner (who is very poor) and Holla (who isnt the best defender either) to cover with two centre backs. Add in a keeper who more often messes up than pulls off a great save and we are a nightmare.

 

[perseus]

4-4-2 with natural wingers and a target man! yeah the game may have moved on since the 70's but it is still hard to defend against!
This unexciting euro crap were watching with our defenders over exposed at times is a recipe for disaster if we continue with this we will be rooted to the foot of the table fact!!!

Middlesbro showed that you only need three men in a breakaway. You can only play on one wing at a time. The advancing full back comes in on the far side them.

Capello played a 4-4-2 variant with just the one winger. This got slated as well, but it is good in a relegation battle.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

But its not when the full backs are pushing up, they start the game pushed up and occasionally revert back to their defensive role. The midfield are then asked to cover the full backs which leaves huge gaps in the middle or if they cover that space the space is left out wide. It also limits the midfield and their ability to get forward and support the front players.
Once teams cut out the cross field ball (which we seem quite good at) we are very easy to defend against and then the opposition attack down the wing exploiting the space.

Exactly and that is why Sami expects the midfielders to slot in when the FBs are pushed up.

See Crofts at Brentford when he was outpaced for 2nd and 3rd, when Caldy was upfield. Yesterday when Bennett dived in there was a massive hole behind them as JFC was not covering.

I know this is Hyypia's expectation from one of the scouting team who had a session with him. Personally I think only Ince can adequately fill this role as he is the most athletic.