[Football] Sweet Caroline - why?

[Sid in the Sharknado]

These days, if you question why certain songs are played at England football matches you get arrested and thrown in jail.

Neil Diamond should have his goolies chopped off.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Creepy song written about a 12 year old girl.

Diamond is a fairly straight forward songwriter, there aren't hidden allegories or metaphors. He basically wrote a song for his wife Marcia but couldn't get Marcia to rhyme. He wrote it when Caroline Kennedy was just 7, it didn't get recorded and released till she was 12, Caroline is 3 syllables so worked - that is about the extent of it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How? It states a false tale about Jesus visiting England. It’s a parody.

Sir Hubert Parry wrote the lovely music.

I had not heard that it was a parody. There is no mention of parody here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time

However if you make a living from alternative interpretations of literature it's possible to posit anything. Here the analyst muses that the Dark Satanic Mills are in fact Englands churches, and Blake is attacking orthodox Christianity and excessive patriotism:

https://interestingliterature.com/2017/04/a-short-analysis-of-william-blakes-jerusalem/

Since Blake is not on record explaining the meaning of his poem we shall never know.

However I rather like the idea that orthodox Christians, and scoundrels seeking a last refuge, sing the song with gusto without realising the words mock them. I like a bit of irony, me.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

These days, if you question why certain songs are played at England football matches you get arrested and thrown in jail.

Yeah, these days

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Diamond is a fairly straight forward songwriter, there aren't hidden allegories or metaphors. He basically wrote a song for his wife Marcia but couldn't get Marcia to rhyme. He wrote it when Caroline Kennedy was just 7, it didn't get recorded and released till she was 12, Caroline is 3 syllables so worked - that is about the extent of it.

I had it in my head he wrote lots of hits for others so just looked him up.

In 1967 he released the single "Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon" with a b side of "You'll Forget"

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I had not heard that it was a parody. There is no mention of parody here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time

However if you make a living from alternative interpretations of literature it's possible to posit anything. Here the analyst muses that the Dark Satanic Mills are in fact Englands churches, and Blake is attacking orthodox Christianity and excessive patriotism:

https://interestingliterature.com/2017/04/a-short-analysis-of-william-blakes-jerusalem/

Since Blake is not on record explaining the meaning of his poem we shall never know.

However I rather like the idea that orthodox Christians, and scoundrels seeking a last refuge, sing the song with gusto without realising the words mock them. I like a bit of irony, me.

The very first line is a question. And did those feet?

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I had it in my head he wrote lots of hits for others so just looked him up.

In 1967 he released the single "Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon" with a b side of "You'll Forget"

And it takes a leap to link either with anything sinister to be fair.

 

[BadFish]

I had not heard that it was a parody. There is no mention of parody here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time

However if you make a living from alternative interpretations of literature it's possible to posit anything. Here the analyst muses that the Dark Satanic Mills are in fact Englands churches, and Blake is attacking orthodox Christianity and excessive patriotism:

https://interestingliterature.com/2017/04/a-short-analysis-of-william-blakes-jerusalem/

Since Blake is not on record explaining the meaning of his poem we shall never know.

However I rather like the idea that orthodox Christians, and scoundrels seeking a last refuge, sing the song with gusto without realising the words mock them. I like a bit of irony, me.

https://poemanalysis.com/william-blake/jerusalem/

this analysis has the 'dark satanic mills' as something less abstract as it explains that it is a discussion on how Jesus would have experienced England if he had visited during Blake's time in the throws of the industrial revolution. Apparently Blake held a very anti industrial position on most things and according the this analysis Jeruselum was another poem on this subject.

As you say we will never know what Blake was really saying but it does seem clear that some religious institutions have taken the poem to their bosum. I also just read somewhere that it was played at one of the recent royal weddings, so the royal family (and head of the church of England) obviously take a certain meaning too.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The very first line is a question. And did those feet?

That's a question, not a parody, surely?

I understand that some Christians get annoyed about the musings about Jusus tarvelling to England, almost as much as some Christians get vexed about the Da Vinci Code (the last time someone was thrown out of Nicky Campbell's phone in when he had studio guests many years ago it was over this). However that doesn't mean Blake's musings are parody. Albeit there may be other reasons that prove that it is.

I accept that the Dark Satanic Mills may be a reference to the churches, albeit I suspect he was referring to England's dark satanic mills. But we shall never know.

If you have a link to proof of Blake's true intentions I'd be interested to read it. I like a bit of philosophy but Eng Lit isn't really my thing

 

[Yes Chef]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-s-nothing-patriotic-about-william-blake-s-jerusalem

More Blake stuff here.

 

[jakarta]

Blake was a bit mad, but it doesn't stop his lyrics being rather better than those of a hack American song writer.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's a question, not a parody, surely?

I understand that some Christians get annoyed about the musings about Jusus tarvelling to England, almost as much as some Christians get vexed about the Da Vinci Code (the last time someone was thrown out of Nicky Campbell's phone in when he had studio guests many years ago it was over this). However that doesn't mean Blake's musings are parody. Albeit there may be other reasons that prove that it is.

I accept that the Dark Satanic Mills may be a reference to the churches, albeit I suspect he was referring to England's dark satanic mills. But we shall never know.

If you have a link to proof of Blake's true intentions I'd be interested to read it. I like a bit of philosophy but Eng Lit isn't really my thing

No link, but many Christians reject his lyrics.
He is saying, no, Jesus didn’t come here and it might be prosperous, and head of an empire, but it’s no paradise.
I think he was referring to the mills & factories where people worked for over 12 hours a day, including children. There was prosperity but there was also lots of death and disease.
Victorian times brought about many reformers like Fry & Nightingale.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Blake was a bit mad, but it doesn't stop his lyrics being rather better than those of a hack American song writer.

How many people know the words to blast out Jerusalem compared to Sweet Caroline? Come on, football chants aren’t an endorsement of musical or lyrical quality, just the songs the most people can remember.

‘Good times never felt so good’ - it’s just an anthem, it works because it’s a bit crap.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Blake was a bit mad, but it doesn't stop his lyrics being rather better than those of a hack American song writer.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

It does seem a strange choice for England fans.
I wouldn't actually sing it because it reminds me of reading fans and it was always a bit cringey when they sang it.

I got the impression it was something the FA was trying to get the fans to sing to stop any"ten German bombers"songs starting up which would affect the world cup bid so they played sweet Caroline through the tannoy to get the fans to sing along too.
ITV banging on about the song last night made me even more suspicious that it was an official FA directive of creating an image.
I used to think the band did the same thing of controlling the narrative of the chants when the FA banned some of the old ones.

Footballers themselves seem to love the song as we have seen here at Brighton and Southgate mentioned last night that it's a favourite of the players in the England camp which may be why it was picked to be played on the tannoy.

I read somewhere that villa fans sang it recently so maybe a few villa fans started it for grealish.

However it started I think it's a bit odd for fans to sing But the fans that are singing it seem to enjoy it and the players like it so if it helps then it can't be a bad thing.

 

[jakarta]

So you don't rate William Blake vs. Neil Diamond?

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

https://youtu.be/TnfEw5_hjVQ

Far better Sweet Caroline
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Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Norman Potting]

I cant take much credit as I read the US Soccer Guy report this morning and saw they had this T shirt for sale

https://usasoccerguystore.com/product/three-lines-on-a-t-shirt/


The report of the game for those that may not have seen it

"England Soccer Club emulize the guys in the summer of '69 by making it right the way through to the final of a world championship. They needed hyper-overtime to go get the 3 points against Denmark Soccer Club, who were the winningest franchise in the tie for a few minutes after inserting a real sweet felony kick. But after Kasper the friendly Goaltender had made a hand denial with his body to deny Raheem British Dollar, the Three Lines came again and knotted it up at ones after Buckaroo Soccer's cross pass forced a deefense guy into a negative equity goalshot. The second quarter went by without any insertions, which kinda sucked. In hyper-overtime, the British guys dominized and eventually made it pay when British Dollar, who some thought did the voluntary simulation plunge in the danger box zone, won the deathstrike. The HurriKane's kick strike was denied by Kasper the friendly Goaltender, but the the ball fell to the cleats of the Soccer Chicken inserter, who finished it off his second chance chance. The jewels remain real shiny, and the Lines will hope to go save that queen when they play soccer again on on the weekend. "

IMHO US Soccer Guy is a bonkers genius

 

[LamieRobertson]

So you don't rate William Blake vs. Neil Diamond?

I think you’ve dug a hole and are getting deeper into it…..and over analysing..it’s an adopted tune that people including me love singing at sports events ..it’s as simple as that

 

[Silverhatch]

Come on come on
Hurry up Harry come on
Come on come on
Hurry up Harry come on
We're going down the pub
We're going down the pub

You don't have to tell me
That the thing's I do are wrong
But everything I do in life
Is with us right or wrong
Now I think I understand
How to have some fun