[News] Sultan of Oman - RIP

[Triggaaar]

No, and neither do you. Any party you vote for is a neo-liberal party taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich. Its a well established yet overlooked fact that despite our so called democracy, Western countries are run by their oligarchs.

Second question: probably. Sultan Qaboos in Oman, Rupert Murdoch in the UK.

Third question: likely they would get a similar treatment to i.e. Julian Assange or other western people imprisoned for "risking national security" a.k.a. bringing the bad shit into the spotlight.

Homosexuality is illegal in Oman, like polygamy is illegal in the Western world.

 

[Swansman]

So in your view no difference between Oman and Britain then?

Western democracies are no different to dictatorships?

Every journalists, even ones online or in underground mags, are all puppets of the oligarchs?

I’m totally bewildered by your third point. There are people in the streets waving placards saying **** Boris and the like and are tolerated. They would not be tolerated in Oman. They’d be in prison possibly being tortured.

And in what way is being born gay comparable with polygamy?

Never been to Britain or Oman but they are probably quite different for lots of reasons.

Most Western democracies are not much different from dictatorships, no.

Not every journalist. Probably not in Oman either, we just dont hear a lot about Omanian underground media.

You can protest that way in a lot of Arab countries as well. Dont know specifically about Oman. But regarding protests that actually matter (unlike waving placards), treatment are the same; reveal dirty facts that actually matter and you'll be locked up.

Born to be gay or born to be in love with several people, how is it not comparable? We consider one thing "right" and the other "wrong", they see it the other way around. Is it because we - or them - are better, wiser and got better morale? No, its cultural stuff.

 

[Swansman]

Pathetic points, particularly the last! Will give you the benefit of the doubt and call it ignorance rather than homophobia.

I dont have anything against homosexuality. Same with polygamy.

 

[Live by the sea]

No, and neither do you. Any party you vote for is a neo-liberal party taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich. Its a well established yet overlooked fact that despite our so called democracy, Western countries are run by their oligarchs.

Second question: probably. Sultan Qaboos in Oman, Rupert Murdoch in the UK.

Third question: likely they would get a similar treatment to i.e. Julian Assange or other western people imprisoned for "risking national security" a.k.a. bringing the bad shit into the spotlight.

Homosexuality is illegal in Oman, like polygamy is illegal in the Western world.

With respect you have a very strange world view. To try to compare human rights in most Arab countries as somehow comparable to what we have in the UK or across Europe and the western world in general is frankly laughable.

 

[Swansman]

With respect you have a very strange world view. To try to compare human rights in most Arab countries as somehow comparable to what we have in the UK or across Europe and the western world in general is frankly laughable. There is only one country in the entire Middle East that has a totally free press and that is not an Arab country.

Yes I do have a very strange world view.

Define human rights. If I'm homeless in the UK or in Sweden and try to solve my problem by building a shack somewhere, the police will come tear it down before you even start building. If you do the same elsewhere, chances are good you will have your shack and while may not have the "human right" to freedom of choosing between 14 kinds of Red Bull - , you'll have a roof over your head.

There is no state in the world with totally free press. Reveal national secrets - and every nation got plenty of those - not "supposed" to be revealed and find yourself jailed, sacked or suicided.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yes I do have a very strange world view.

Define human rights. If I'm homeless in the UK or in Sweden and try to solve my problem by building a shack somewhere, the police will come tear it down before you even start building. If you do the same elsewhere, chances are good you will have your shack and while may not have the "human right" to freedom of choosing between 14 kinds of Red Bull - , you'll have a roof over your head.

There is no state in the world with totally free press. Reveal national secrets - and every nation got plenty of those - not "supposed" to be revealed and find yourself jailed, sacked or suicided.

Never seen the police knock down a shack.

 

[Jesus Gul]

Stunning country Oman...and all driving school vehicles have to be bedecked in zebra stripes!!!

 

[Swansman]

Never seen the police knock down a shack.

Well if you ever become homeless, try building a small shack in the outskirts of Brighton and see how long they let you have it.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Well if you ever become homeless, try building a small shack in the outskirts of Brighton and see how long they let you have it.

OK, God knows why though I don't come from Brighton but whatever you say.

 

[Swansman]

OK, God knows why though I don't come from Brighton but whatever you say.

... its not exclusive for Brighton which I assumed you would understand (my bad) so I'll make it clearer:

If you become homeless, try to build a shack outside whatever western world city, town or village your living in and see how long they let you keep it.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

... its not exclusive for Brighton which I assumed you would understand (my bad) so I'll make it clearer:

If you become homeless, try to build a shack outside whatever western world city, town or village your living in and see how long they let you keep it.

And perhaps you’ll understand it will not be dealt with by the police

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Yes I do have a very strange world view.

Define human rights. If I'm homeless in the UK or in Sweden and try to solve my problem by building a shack somewhere, the police will come tear it down before you even start building. If you do the same elsewhere, chances are good you will have your shack and while may not have the "human right" to freedom of choosing between 14 kinds of Red Bull - , you'll have a roof over your head.

There is no state in the world with totally free press. Reveal national secrets - and every nation got plenty of those - not "supposed" to be revealed and find yourself jailed, sacked or suicided.

I actually have a lot of time for your points of view, although I would have stayed away from the point about gays. That has actually got me wondering why polygamy is banned over here - and actually, the act of being in love and having sex with more than one person is actually perfectly legal, its just officially marrying them that is illegal, which is more an administrative point than a moral one. So not comparable.

Anyway I digress. My wondering is whether you would be able to freely write what you have written here, in Oman as an Omani citizen, replacing criticism of our government and institutions with that of Omans. Even if you could, i doubt you would be ignored by the authorities compared to how no one cares over here.

The press is free over here, but its been free to be corrupted by oligarchs. The fault then lies more on the citizens for believing the propaganda, and the only solution to that is education and training people to be objective.

Your point about homelessness is well made. I suppose the counter argument is that we provide a safety net to people in this situation, in a way many other countries don't do (but the council house waiting list would suggest we don't do it as well as we should)

You've never been to Britain? Where and who are you then

 

[Swansman]

I actually have a lot of time for your points of view, although I would have stayed away from the point about gays. That has actually got me wondering why polygamy is banned over here - and actually, the act of being in love and having sex with more than one person is actually perfectly legal, its just officially marrying them that is illegal, which is more an administrative point than a moral one. So not comparable.

Anyway I digress. My wondering is whether you would be able to freely write what you have written here, in Oman as an Omani citizen, replacing criticism of our government and institutions with that of Omans. Even if you could, i doubt you would be ignored by the authorities compared to how no one cares over here.

The press is free over here, but its been free to be corrupted by oligarchs. The fault then lies more on the citizens for believing the propaganda, and the only solution to that is education and training people to be objective.

Your point about homelessness is well made. I suppose the counter argument is that we provide a safety net to people in this situation, in a way many other countries don't do (but the council house waiting list would suggest we don't do it as well as we should)

You've never been to Britain? Where and who are you then

In some Arab countries the laws against homosexuality are not really enforced but really more a part of the "Sharia" and "dont be Israel" package. I.e. in Oman they dont really care unless you are some big celebrity or authority. In a way it makes it comparable to western stance on polygamy: you can do it but you cant be "official" about it.

Same goes with free speech, really. If someone from pre-war Syria or Gaddafis Libya went on some online forum and wrote bad things about the al-Assad/Gaddafi government, they very likely wouldnt care unless you tried to create some kind of revolt. If you do the same thing in UAE or Saudi Arabia you are definitely putting your life at risk. Oman, as far as I know (should be said I know a lot about the Middle East but not that much about Oman), I think they generally have gone the middle road, penalising but not killing the "worst critics".

Freedom of speech is a pretty difficult topic though. In the Western world we are not allowed to write things that risk national security. Reveal some secret military base or whatever in the UK and they will be coming for you. In the Arab world "criticism" is often a threat to national security because revolution is always around the corner. Take Libya as an example, the upper classes didnt like Gaddafi and could speak quite freely about it. They could start anti-Gaddafi Facebook groups and discuss what they saw as problems and organize themselves, while also being able to communicate with westerners who for one reason or another would gain advantages from revolutions in countries with anti-western leaders.

Free speech is a threat to national security in those countries and if it was the same case here, I dont think our states would do it in a different way. Lets see when World War III comes along and brings instability to western countries - lets see how critical we will be allowed to be. Spanish laws introduced after the Catalonia freedom movement gives a hint.

As for the press here, I cant say that the citizens are at fault really. In a way yes, but its hard to blame anyone for getting outsmarted by 100+ years of science about propaganda / crowd control and 20 years of data showing what people believe in and what methods work for changing or keeping those beliefs. At this point it is not possible to solve, and certainly not with education shaped by the same oligarchs shaping media and minds.

I'm from Sweden, stalking Graham Potter and his football. Fell in love with Swansea last season and thought that wouldnt change with Potter leaving, hence the name "Swansman"... I was wrong though and now I'm all about Brighton (until the day Potter leaves, I suppose).

 

[Triggaaar]

Most Western democracies are not much different from dictatorships, no.

Born to be gay or born to be in love with several people, how is it not comparable? We consider one thing "right" and the other "wrong", they see it the other way around. Is it because we - or them - are better, wiser and got better morale? No, its cultural stuff.

So the women are allowed multiple husbands are they?

 

[chimneys]

In some Arab countries the laws against homosexuality are not really enforced but really more a part of the "Sharia" and "dont be Israel" package. I.e. in Oman they dont really care unless you are some big celebrity or authority. In a way it makes it comparable to western stance on polygamy: you can do it but you cant be "official" about it.

Same goes with free speech, really. If someone from pre-war Syria or Gaddafis Libya went on some online forum and wrote bad things about the al-Assad/Gaddafi government, they very likely wouldnt care unless you tried to create some kind of revolt. If you do the same thing in UAE or Saudi Arabia you are definitely putting your life at risk. Oman, as far as I know (should be said I know a lot about the Middle East but not that much about Oman), I think they generally have gone the middle road, penalising but not killing the "worst critics".

Freedom of speech is a pretty difficult topic though. In the Western world we are not allowed to write things that risk national security. Reveal some secret military base or whatever in the UK and they will be coming for you. In the Arab world "criticism" is often a threat to national security because revolution is always around the corner. Take Libya as an example, the upper classes didnt like Gaddafi and could speak quite freely about it. They could start anti-Gaddafi Facebook groups and discuss what they saw as problems and organize themselves, while also being able to communicate with westerners who for one reason or another would gain advantages from revolutions in countries with anti-western leaders.

Free speech is a threat to national security in those countries and if it was the same case here, I dont think our states would do it in a different way. Lets see when World War III comes along and brings instability to western countries - lets see how critical we will be allowed to be. Spanish laws introduced after the Catalonia freedom movement gives a hint.

As for the press here, I cant say that the citizens are at fault really. In a way yes, but its hard to blame anyone for getting outsmarted by 100+ years of science about propaganda / crowd control and 20 years of data showing what people believe in and what methods work for changing or keeping those beliefs. At this point it is not possible to solve, and certainly not with education shaped by the same oligarchs shaping media and minds.

I'm from Sweden, stalking Graham Potter and his football. Fell in love with Swansea last season and thought that wouldnt change with Potter leaving, hence the name "Swansman"... I was wrong though and now I'm all about Brighton (until the day Potter leaves, I suppose).

Your lot going to sit on the fence for that war too? Never forget if it wasn't for the sacrifice of our forefathers, you would possibly have very little freedom of speech now!

 

[Spiros]

Well if you ever become homeless, try building a small shack in the outskirts of Brighton and see how long they let you have it.

To be fair if you've got a caravan and an untaxed transit van and you park it on any public open space around Brighton you'll be treated like royalty and allow to commit any crimes you like without any consequence, it seems. Just got to call yourself a 'traveller'

 

[1066familyman]

So the women are allowed multiple husbands are they?

Have a little think as to why that is. It isn't rocket science or all about the subjugation of women.

 

[Triggaaar]

It isn't - all about the subjugation of women.

Sure it is. It ain't about making babies.

 

[Swansman]

So the women are allowed multiple husbands are they?

No, very few countries allow that and in the few countries its legal, basically no one practices it.

Sure it is. It ain't about making babies.

Thats the belief you've been force fed with: Arabs are savage, primitive wifebeaters so its completely fine bombing the shit out of them and take their resources so that you are able to build more bombs and kill more Arabs, because thats how we civilised westeners do our civilised business. Just proves you've swallowed western propaganda with hook, line and sinker.

Truth is that most historical records show that polygamy increased dramatically in prevalence because most men were sold as slaves so there would be five or so women for every man, so the historical foundation is not the urge to "subjugate" women but to survive the white man.

As these countries developed, many traditions - like polygamy - were kept and sometimes encouraged since it has a positive effect on population growth. In the Koran and a lot of Muslim countries, the requirements for being allowed to have multiple wives are very high though of course some are "abusing" it, like in any system anywhere. Anyway, the requirements for having multiple wives means that the wives often have far more resources. If you look at the Arab world, you will find women fighting different types of oppression but you are gonna have to look long and hard to find anyone revolting against polygamy.

In most of the world, people still believe men and women are different - they behave differently, have different needs and wishes. Eventually the latest wave of scientifically debunked but culturally approved western feminism - the "we are all exactly the same except society makes us different" - might find its way to the Middle East, but until then, they will have (though decreasingly) different laws for men and women since men and women are different.

Some of the laws allow women to do what men are not allowed to do: if we take homosexuality as an example, female homosexuality is - in most Arab states - allowed while male isnt. While on the other hand, as stated, men can marry multiple wives while women cant marry mulitple men. There are practical, traditional and sometimes religious or cultural beliefs that shape these laws, but the whole "Arab women are treated like animals" bullshit is just pure racism sent from the masters through the masts to the masses.

 

[Triggaaar]

Thats the belief you've been force fed with: Arabs are savage, primitive wifebeaters so its completely fine bombing the shit out of them and take their resources so that you are able to build more bombs and kill more Arabs, because thats how we civilised westeners do our civilised business. Just proves you've swallowed western propaganda with hook, line and sinker.

You really are totally clueless. We've recently welcomed a couple of Omanis into our home for a year. You don't know anything about me, you just trot out your warped anti-west agenda.