[Politics] Stop the boats

[peterward]

Stop the Boats.
Stay at Home, Save lives, protect the NHS.
Stay Alert, control the Virus, Save lives.
Get Brexit Done.
350m a week for the NHS.
Long term decisions for a brighter future.

No.
Yes, No, No
Maybe, No, No
No
Big fat No
My arse.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I wasn’t aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers. Is that theoretical or in practice? Not sure why a Rwandan would need asylum though.
I guess, as you suggest, the motivation for Rwanda is financial and very clever of them if they don’t end up taking any. We talk so much about how the policy is wrong from a Uk perspective but I also see it as a policy whereby a wealthy nation is trying to dump its problems on a poorer one. I fear the poorer one will be the ultimate loser. Rwanda is, IMHO, a country that we could learn a great deal from but I fear we could teach them very little.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wasn’t aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers. Is that theoretical or in practice? Not sure why a Rwandan would need asylum though.
I guess, as you suggest, the motivation for Rwanda is financial and very clever of them if they don’t end up taking any. We talk so much about how the policy is wrong from a Uk perspective but I also see it as a policy whereby a wealthy nation is trying to dump its problems on a poorer one. I fear the poorer one will be the ultimate loser. Rwanda is, IMHO, a country that we could learn a great deal from but I fear we could teach them very little.

Maybe reading up some background information on both the Rwandan Government's human rights record and why the British Supreme Court ruled the whole Rwandan scheme illegal would settle some of your worries about Rwanda getting the UK's problems 'dumped' on it. There's only one winner in this and it's not the British taxpayer.

This is a good explanation of the Supreme courts decision The Supreme Court’s Rwanda verdict

And these give a background to Rwanda's Human rights record that caused the verdict above

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location...he-horn-and-great-lakes/rwanda/report-rwanda/
https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/10/10/join-us-or-die/rwandas-extraterritorial-repression

I found both of these useful in understanding why it won't happen

Why the Government continue to lie about it, I worked out myself.

 

[Blue3]

Time surely for the government to arrange for a daily ferry service so that brexit loving migrants can safely travel to the land of the free from France .

The average ferry should be able to transport approx 1000 people at a time which should be sufficient for now

That’s obviously not the answer but if there is no other options available then it must be preferable to people drowning what a terrible way to die and what a waste for all we know one of them might have ended up becoming the person who discovers a cure for what ever it is that ends your life

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

You're going to have to come up with more extreme views than that.

A few years ago, Priti Patel came up with the idea of a wave machine to deter the boats. She evidently thought that asylum seekers hadn't undergone enough trauma sailing over treacherous waters, so the ones that survive should be hit by big waves as they approach our shores.

Thankfully, the idea was rejected.

It will never work

Coincidently, being caught out by the wave machine being deployed at Sherwood Forest Centre Parcs was the moment that I l first learnt to swim unassisted, simply through fear. My dad told me I couldn’t perch on his shoulders anymore as it was pushing him under water, some assist!

 

[Algernon]

The only option is to tow the Isle of Wight to France and let them all settle there.
I went in September this year and the roads were pretty clear, didn't seem overly populated and with obviously plenty of infrastructure already in place.
Ideal.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The only option is to tow the Isle of Wight to France and let them all settle there.
I went in September this year and the roads were pretty clear, didn't seem overly populated and with obviously plenty of infrastructure already in place.
Ideal.

France already has more than twice the number than us.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I wasn’t aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers. Is that theoretical or in practice? Not sure why a Rwandan would need asylum though.
I guess, as you suggest, the motivation for Rwanda is financial and very clever of them if they don’t end up taking any. We talk so much about how the policy is wrong from a Uk perspective but I also see it as a policy whereby a wealthy nation is trying to dump its problems on a poorer one. I fear the poorer one will be the ultimate loser. Rwanda is, IMHO, a country that we could learn a great deal from but I fear we could teach them very little.

We could learn how to “disappear” political enemies off re routed aeroplanes.

 

[abc]

You’re not sure why a Rwandan would need asylum.

Seriously?

With respect, have you ever been to Rwanda or do you know any Rwandans?
This is a country that was ripped apart by Genocide only 30 years ago. 1million people were murdered in 100 days. Yet it is a country that has come together with huge optimism and forgiveness whilst of course the wounds remain very raw. There are some who wish to perpetuate murder and most of these are in exile in Congo and Burundi (armed rebel groups) and remain a serious threat. The Rwandan president is extremely popular amongst the vast majority of Rwandans for orchestrating peace. He is their Mandela. With their recent past and being the poor country it is, not everything is perfect but it is the safest country in Africa and one of the safest in the world, way ahead of Britain by some recognised rankings. Rwandans are very proud of their country, its safety, opportunities for women and tolerance of religion and ethnicity.
Making societal judgements and comparisons is always difficult and there will always be those that have an agenda to paint a certain picture. So it is complicated. But perhaps we should be looking at the plank in our British eyes before making too many judgements about others

 

[Stat Brother]

The only option is to tow the Isle of Wight to France and let them all settle there.
I went in September this year and the roads were pretty clear, didn't seem overly populated and with obviously plenty of infrastructure already in place.
Ideal.

But how will they cope with the time difference?

You're asking a lot of people to come to a new country, new climate, new language and expect them to settle in..





...the 1950's.

 

[Eric the meek]

With respect, have you ever been to Rwanda or do you know any Rwandans?
This is a country that was ripped apart by Genocide only 30 years ago. 1million people were murdered in 100 days. Yet it is a country that has come together with huge optimism and forgiveness whilst of course the wounds remain very raw. There are some who wish to perpetuate murder and most of these are in exile in Congo and Burundi (armed rebel groups) and remain a serious threat. The Rwandan president is extremely popular amongst the vast majority of Rwandans for orchestrating peace. He is their Mandela. With their recent past and being the poor country it is, not everything is perfect but it is the safest countrt in Africa and one of the safest in the world, way ahead of Britusin by some recognised rankings. Rwandans are very proud of their country, its safety, opportunities for women and tolerance of religion and ethnicity.
Making societal judgements and comparisons is always difficult and there will always be those that have an agenda to paint a certain picture. So it is complicated. But perhaps we should be looking at the plank in our British eyes before making too many judgements about others

Why are people in exile? How many are in exile? If the number is more than zero, there is at the very least, a question mark over whether Rwanda is a safe country, no?
If it were a safe country, they wouldn't be in exile would they? They would be living happily in Rwanda.

If a Rwandan-in-exile returned to Rwanda seeking asylum, would he enjoy the safe passage of being sent to UK as part of our reciprocal arrangement? Or would something worse happen to him? Rusesabagina (see comment #689) wasn't even seeking asylum. He wasn't intending to go back to Rwanda. He thought he was on a flight to neighbouring Burundi, but the plane was diverted to Kigali, Rwanda. Result: a 25 year prison sentence.

The UK Supreme Court recently ruled that Rwanda is not a safe country for asylum seekers. Quite right too.

 

[WATFORD zero]

With respect, have you ever been to Rwanda or do you know any Rwandans?
This is a country that was ripped apart by Genocide only 30 years ago. 1million people were murdered in 100 days. Yet it is a country that has come together with huge optimism and forgiveness whilst of course the wounds remain very raw. There are some who wish to perpetuate murder and most of these are in exile in Congo and Burundi (armed rebel groups) and remain a serious threat. The Rwandan president is extremely popular amongst the vast majority of Rwandans for orchestrating peace. He is their Mandela. With their recent past and being the poor country it is, not everything is perfect but it is the safest country in Africa and one of the safest in the world, way ahead of Britain by some recognised rankings. Rwandans are very proud of their country, its safety, opportunities for women and tolerance of religion and ethnicity.
Making societal judgements and comparisons is always difficult and there will always be those that have an agenda to paint a certain picture. So it is complicated. But perhaps we should be looking at the plank in our British eyes before making too many judgements about others

I'd be interested if you could provide the links to the recognised rankings that show Rwanda as being safer than Britain, as that seems at odds with what Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International were saying in the links I published a few posts ago.

Thanks

 

[The Clamp]

With respect, have you ever been to Rwanda or do you know any Rwandans?
This is a country that was ripped apart by Genocide only 30 years ago. 1million people were murdered in 100 days. Yet it is a country that has come together with huge optimism and forgiveness whilst of course the wounds remain very raw. There are some who wish to perpetuate murder and most of these are in exile in Congo and Burundi (armed rebel groups) and remain a serious threat. The Rwandan president is extremely popular amongst the vast majority of Rwandans for orchestrating peace. He is their Mandela. With their recent past and being the poor country it is, not everything is perfect but it is the safest country in Africa and one of the safest in the world, way ahead of Britain by some recognised rankings. Rwandans are very proud of their country, its safety, opportunities for women and tolerance of religion and ethnicity.
Making societal judgements and comparisons is always difficult and there will always be those that have an agenda to paint a certain picture. So it is complicated. But perhaps we should be looking at the plank in our British eyes before making too many judgements about others

There’s plenty of places I haven’t been. Yet I know they’re not safe.

Rwanda is not a safe country. Nor is it the safest country in Africa.

It has been previously ranked as quite safe for tourists. I’ll concede that.

https://a-z-animals.com/blog/safest-countries-in-africa-today-ranked/

 

[Eric the meek]

There’s plenty of places I haven’t been. Yet I know they’re not safe.

Rwanda is not a safe country. Nor is it the safest country in Africa.

It has been previously ranked as quite safe for tourists. I’ll concede that.

https://a-z-animals.com/blog/safest-countries-in-africa-today-ranked/

Why isn't Rwanda in the list of top 11 safest countries in Africa in that link? You need to go to Rwanda and meet some Rwandans.

 

[The Clamp]

The British government has legislated that Rwanda is safe.

North Korean levels of bullshit.

One step away from legislating Tuesday is Sunday.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Bodian]

With respect, have you ever been to Rwanda or do you know any Rwandans?
This is a country that was ripped apart by Genocide only 30 years ago. 1million people were murdered in 100 days. Yet it is a country that has come together with huge optimism and forgiveness whilst of course the wounds remain very raw. There are some who wish to perpetuate murder and most of these are in exile in Congo and Burundi (armed rebel groups) and remain a serious threat. The Rwandan president is extremely popular amongst the vast majority of Rwandans for orchestrating peace. He is their Mandela. With their recent past and being the poor country it is, not everything is perfect but it is the safest country in Africa and one of the safest in the world, way ahead of Britain by some recognised rankings. Rwandans are very proud of their country, its safety, opportunities for women and tolerance of religion and ethnicity.
Making societal judgements and comparisons is always difficult and there will always be those that have an agenda to paint a certain picture. So it is complicated. But perhaps we should be looking at the plank in our British eyes before making too many judgements about others

I don't know enough about Rwanda to question this - but there are a few figures and stats out there.

6,328 people sought asylum from Rwanda in 2022 according to this

Refugees from Rwanda: Figures and development

6,328 asylum applications made by refugees from Rwanda in 2022. A list by countries receiving most of them.

www.worlddata.info

This is also interesting in relation to outstanding cases, in comparison to other countries.

Claims by Country of Alleged Persecution - 2022 - Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada

www.irb-cisr.gc.ca

 

[abc]

Why are people in exile? How many are in exile? If the number is more than zero, there is at the very least, a question mark over whether Rwanda is a safe country, no?
If it were a safe country, they wouldn't be in exile would they? They would be living happily in Rwanda.

If a Rwandan-in-exile returned to Rwanda seeking asylum, would he enjoy the safe passage of being sent to UK as part of our reciprocal arrangement? Or would something worse happen to him? Rusesabagina (see comment #689) wasn't even seeking asylum. He wasn't intending to go back to Rwanda. He thought he was on a flight to neighbouring Burundi, but the plane was diverted to Kigali, Rwanda. Result: a 25 year prison sentence.

The UK Supreme Court recently ruled that Rwanda is not a safe country for asylum seekers. Quite right too.

They are in exile because they were perpetrators of murder during the genocide and went over the border to escape justice. Many of those are part of various rebel groups who have the sole aim of repeating the genocide.
FYI interest, ‘justice’ took the form of prison but could be sentences were halved for those that asked for forgiveness and vowed to protect rather than take lives in tye future. A key aspect of the reconciliation

 

[abc]

Just to be clear, I am 100% against our gov’s Rwanda policy. My gripe is that Rwanda as a country and people are being tarnished by default. Rwanda is very safe for visitors and for people’s day to day life. The security/safety risks come from rebel incursions from Congo and Burundi and there have been some multiple fatality incidents since the genocide.
My experience of Rwanda, their people and their society is incredibly tolerant, peaceful, safe and positive.
I’ll leave it there but I think we are all in agreement that our gov’s attempt at forced deportations is simply wrong.
Cheers.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Just to be clear, I am 100% against our gov’s Rwanda policy. My gripe is that Rwanda as a country and people are being tarnished by default. Rwanda is very safe for visitors and for people’s day to day life. The security/safety risks come from rebel incursions from Congo and Burundi and there have been some multiple fatality incidents since the genocide.
My experience of Rwanda, their people and their society is incredibly tolerant, peaceful, safe and positive.
I’ll leave it there but I think we are all in agreement that our gov’s attempt at forced deportations is simply wrong.
Cheers.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you write about the day to day life of most Rwandans (I haven't been), but we really have gone through the looking glass when a sincere attempt to improve people's perception of a country features lines like

there have been some multiple fatality incidents since the genocide.

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you write about the day to day life of most Rwandans (I haven't been), but we really have gone through the looking glass when a sincere attempt to improve people's perception of a country features lines like

But during the intervening periods between the genocide and the multiple fatality incidents, Rwandan society is incredibly tolerant, peaceful, safe and positive.