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[Politics] Starmer v Sunak II *** Official Match Thread ***



ozzygull

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2003
4,010
Reading
We have certainly reached the 'we need change, whatever the quality' stage.
All I read is Tories OUT at any cost, not an overwhelming love for the Toolmaker's son.
Not a great start
It is Tories out at any cost, because if by any chance they win this election, they will truly believe they can do what ever the *uck they like because the electorate is too stupid to do anything about it. If one Tory supporter can tell me one single thing that is better now because of them then it was 14 years ago, I am willing to listen.

What I know to be true was that 14 years ago, I could call my GP surgery and arrange an appointment for a few days time. Now I have try and ring at 8am on the dot and hope by the time it gets to my time in queue there is an appointment available, if not I have to go through the whole rigmarole again the next morning. Its shit.

14 years ago I could go to AE and be seen within a reasonable time.

when I went back to work after I had my daughter, we could buy Childcare Vouchers through our company that were tax exempt and use them to help pay for nursery fees. These were stopped in 2016.

The roads had potholes but not they no where near as bad as they are now.

I had never heard of a food bank 14 years ago, not saying they didn’t exist, just that they were definitely not as prevalent.

when i walked up to the train station (Queens Road) when the Amex opened I would see a couple of homeless people, I loose count of the number now.

To try a stop arguments within the Tory party they decided to abdicate responsibility of if it was right for the country to be part of the European Union to the general public who didn’t have a clue either way and bought in to lies, instead of using official economic specialists who’s job it is to look at it and decide what was in the countries best interest.

These are a few factual things that I know, it does not include their lies, complete incompetence and arrogance.
 






Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,195
Withdean area
Much of that I don't watch. Ed Miliband especially targeted by the media. Corbyn, for some reason, decided to bypass the media, so left himself open to it (not that he'd have it easy if he engaged). Ever since 2010, the Tories have been allowed to get away with the narrative of 'putting record funding into X' completely unchallenged when this actually meant real-terms decreases in X. At the same time, child poverty increasing and the cost of living seeds being sown, never really featured. And this was a sitting government, who ought to be getting closer scrutiny than an opposition. It was only when partygate got going that the media have really dug deep. Even then, what was The Telegraph's reaction to the KamiKwasi budget?
Sunak is suffering from the accumulation of this, and the paucity of scrutiny that preceded his leadership.

We must live in parallel universes. I’ve only heard mass media criticism and bitchy commentary of the Tories since Cameron resigned. Much of it justified, but also the chattering classes were bitter about the Brexit vote, so the Tories made influential enemies for life. [I’m a staunch Remainer].

I’ve never read a Telegraph editorial or political piece, nor in any publications. I subscribe for the football, travel, personal finance, investment and gardening sections. I pointedly never, ever read the musings of Owen Jones, the 2024 version of Poly Toynbee, Douglas Murray, Peter Hitchens et al. We shouldn’t make these people demi-gods. Confidently I do my own research and make up my own mind on every issue in my own time. Identity politics in labelling each of us is plain silly, some try to do that on nsc, people are just a single view away from being wrongly labelled as left or right.

A few 100,000 people drooling over the remnants of Sunak’s last days doesn’t do anything for me. I look forward. Hoping for a fairer time. We own our own homes, we lucked out. Whilst many, many millions in their 20’s and older only see a life of renting or sofa surfing ahead for their days. Whilst they can’t even escape to cheaper nations within the EU 27. Blair, Brown, Sunak caused this with hyper inflation in house prices, now 6 or 7 times that of 1997. What focuses my mind is can Starmer/Reeves house these millions in affordable homes and to get on with it straight away. Please no commissions, consultations, delaying tactics taking an epoch.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,630
Sunak is on a hiding to nothing really. It is a match between Manchester City and Fleetwood Town. It must be tough to not just roll over for him

In my mind Sunak has lost the dressing room and the players are in revolt. He has the impossible task of trying to keep his warring party together whilst fighting an election.

Starmer with all his faults has to be applauded for turning that part round and making them electable after Corbyn.

It's an astonishing achievement.
 


Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
56,158
Back in Sussex
when I went back to work after I had my daughter, we could buy Childcare Vouchers through our company that were tax exempt and use them to help pay for nursery fees. These were stopped in 2016.
(This isn't a pro-Tory response - think of it as NSC Fact Check)

No, no they weren't.

I'm pretty well qualified on this subject, as I worked for a large financial services company that bought a childcare voucher company, and I was the project manager for the integration.

Childcare vouchers continue, to this day, to be a tax-beneficial salary sacrifice option to take as long as you were registered in a scheme on or before 4th October 2018 (not 2016 as stated).

So, if you were already in a scheme in 2016, you should have been able to continue to enjoy the tax benefits. I have no idea why you were stopped - maybe your employer decided not to offer them any more - but it certainly wasn't anything to do with legislative change, Tory-controlled or otherwise.
 






clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,630
I pointedly never, ever read the musings of Owen Jones, the 2024 version of Poly Toynbee, Douglas Murray, Peter Hitchens et al. We shouldn’t make these people demi-gods.

They are gobs on a stick mainly.

I am a particularly "fan" of the surreal world of Hitchens, a complete one off. I'd like him as a neighbour so I could hear his random musings of the day.

Whether that be his call for rail nationalisation, controls on car ownership or his fear that we are about to be taken over by the communist party.

That's lovely Peter, do you want to borrow the patio cleaner at the weekend ?
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,195
Withdean area
In my mind Sunak has lost the dressing room and the players are in revolt. He has the impossible task of trying to keep his warring party together whilst fighting an election.

Starmer with all his faults has to be applauded for turning that part round and making them electable after Corbyn.

It's an astonishing achievement.

Starmer booted out the vote losing anti semites and their appeaser.

The lockdowns, vast cost of lockdowns, post pandemic global inflation, Putin (energy and inflation), destroyed any chance of a good 4+ years. Every democratic government has been booted out since, Macron lost control of parliament. Plus spectacular own goals, choosing right wing thicko Truss … the out of touch local constituency parties now pay the ultimate price … a landslide loss of record proportions.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,195
Withdean area
They are gobs on a stick mainly.

I am a particularly "fan" of the surreal world of Hitchens, a complete one off. I'd like him as a neighbour so I could hear his random musings of the day.

Whether that be his call for rail nationalisation, controls on car ownership or his fear that we are about to be taken over by the communist party.

That's lovely Peter, do you want to borrow the patio cleaner at the weekend ?

I respect his individuality, swimming against trends and the mood music, the UK’s always been better for mavericks. Will Self similarly. Bitchy Owen Jones couldn’t lace their boots on any level.

But unlike a mate of mine, I don’t follow one of them as my political doyen.
 


ozzygull

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2003
4,010
Reading
(This isn't a pro-Tory response - think of it as NSC Fact Check)

No, no they weren't.

I'm pretty well qualified on this subject, as I worked for a large financial services company that bought a childcare voucher company, and I was the project manager for the integration.

Childcare vouchers continue, to this day, to be a tax-beneficial salary sacrifice option to take as long as you were registered in a scheme on or before 4th October 2018 (not 2016 as stated).

So, if you were already in a scheme in 2016, you should have been able to continue to enjoy the tax benefits. I have no idea why you were stopped - maybe your employer decided not to offer them any more - but it certainly wasn't anything to do with legislative change, Tory-controlled or otherwise.
They are stopped to new applicants. I don’t need them anymore, my daughter is 22 in few days 😃

So people having a child today cannot get the same benefit I did. Sorry I thought it was 2016 but it was 2018 as you said.

IMG_0986.jpeg
 






Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,195
Withdean area
(This isn't a pro-Tory response - think of it as NSC Fact Check)

No, no they weren't.

I'm pretty well qualified on this subject, as I worked for a large financial services company that bought a childcare voucher company, and I was the project manager for the integration.

Childcare vouchers continue, to this day, to be a tax-beneficial salary sacrifice option to take as long as you were registered in a scheme on or before 4th October 2018 (not 2016 as stated).

So, if you were already in a scheme in 2016, you should have been able to continue to enjoy the tax benefits. I have no idea why you were stopped - maybe your employer decided not to offer them any more - but it certainly wasn't anything to do with legislative change, Tory-controlled or otherwise.

The change was that from 4 October 2018 new entrants couldn’t join childcare voucher schemes. Replaced by tax free childcare.
 








Ethelwulf

Well-known member
Apr 6, 2020
2,219
West Worthing
I have a feeling sunak may step down before the election .
The man is so far out of his depth should never of been prime minister . He just does not have the political experience .
The tories will get what they deserve from the British public and that is their biggest kicking since 1945
Before I wanted the tories f***ed for ever but reform taking their place is a bigger worry . So I would settle for a 1997 where labour has a landslide
 


aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,819
brighton
In my mind Sunak has lost the dressing room and the players are in revolt. He has the impossible task of trying to keep his warring party together whilst fighting an election.

Starmer with all his faults has to be applauded for turning that part round and making them electable after Corbyn.

It's an astonishing achievement.
It really is.
Wouldn't have thought he had a cat in hell's chance at the time
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
22,540
Brighton
I have a feeling sunak may step down before the election .
The man is so far out of his depth should never of been prime minister . He just does not have the political experience .
The tories will get what they deserve from the British public and that is their biggest kicking since 1945
Before I wanted the tories f***ed for ever but reform taking their place is a bigger worry . So I would settle for a 1997 where labour has a landslide
You don’t have to worry about reform. Really. FPTP protects us. Completely. The cynt-2-decent-human ratio in any given constituency is never going to give them more than 1% of MPs in Parliament, in fact, it would be shocking if they got anywhere near 1%, even with up to 20% of the popular vote.

The issue I have is that we throw the baby (Lib Dems & Greens) out with the shitty bath water. They are the only parties who can properly hold the next government to account.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
Sunak won that for me. Starmer " my father was a toolmaker " Classic stuff, laughs and giggles which he did not get, lol
34% of those canvassed agree with you. 66% don't.

Blessed are the toolmakers.
 




clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,630
I hope the media (particularly political pundits) have a period of reflection after this is all over.

You'd hope they won't give more airtime to Farage if he wins a seat over other minor parties who end up with more MPs,

I'm not holding out much hope.

It's often misinterpreted as bias, when in reality it's about that horrible media word "content" and Farage gives them that.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
We must live in parallel universes. I’ve only heard mass media criticism and bitchy commentary of the Tories since Cameron resigned. Much of it justified, but also the chattering classes were bitter about the Brexit vote, so the Tories made influential enemies for life. [I’m a staunch Remainer].

I’ve never read a Telegraph editorial or political piece, nor in any publications. I subscribe for the football, travel, personal finance, investment and gardening sections. I pointedly never, ever read the musings of Owen Jones, the 2024 version of Poly Toynbee, Douglas Murray, Peter Hitchens et al. We shouldn’t make these people demi-gods. Confidently I do my own research and make up my own mind on every issue in my own time. Identity politics in labelling each of us is plain silly, some try to do that on nsc, people are just a single view away from being wrongly labelled as left or right.

A few 100,000 people drooling over the remnants of Sunak’s last days doesn’t do anything for me. I look forward. Hoping for a fairer time. We own our own homes, we lucked out. Whilst many, many millions in their 20’s and older only see a life of renting or sofa surfing ahead for their days. Whilst they can’t even escape to cheaper nations within the EU 27. Blair, Brown, Sunak caused this with hyper inflation in house prices, now 6 or 7 times that of 1997. What focuses my mind is can Starmer/Reeves house these millions in affordable homes and to get on with it straight away. Please no commissions, consultations, delaying tactics taking an epoch.
All I know is we have been lied to for a very long time, by the Tories.

Like you I don't have an echo chamber. Just my own experience, and a pair of eyes and ears.

:thumbsup:
 


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