Star Wars: The Force Awakens - with Spoilers - discussion thread

[Triggaaar]

C3PO?!?!?

 

[Acker79]

EU is Expended Universe. All the books etc that came out after Return of the Jedi .

Its hard now though to tell what is and isn't canon.

It has changed. There is now the 'Legends Universe', which includes all the books and games written prior to April 25th 2014, which is like a closed off universe for fans to enjoy, but that is not canon for the Disney era of Lucasfilms. Anything written after that is part of the 'New Universe' and is part of the Disney era, however, the filmmakers were/are not beholden to wider universes, and can ignore it if they need to for their film plans.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lucasfilm-unveils-new-plans-star-698973

 

[Acker79]

Or.......

She is another Virgin birth.

Darth Plageous was responsible for Anakins birth IIRC, and if he is Snoke then he may have done it again.

Rey's parent not understanding her abilities leaves her on Jakku through fear and no understanding of the Force.

According to the legends universe (no longer canon for the new films) Anakin was created by the force. Plagueis tried to create life using the dark side of the force, but failed. The force reacted to these attempts by creating the force-strong Anakin to give the light side of the force a chance against the powerful Plagueis (see a link earlier in the thread from my discussion with Triggaaar about this).

 

[Bladders]

It has changed. There is now the 'Legends Universe', which includes all the books and games written prior to April 25th 2014, which is like a closed off universe for fans to enjoy, but that is not canon for the Disney era of Lucasfilms. Anything written after that is part of the 'New Universe' and is part of the Disney era, however, the filmmakers were/are not beholden to wider universes, and can ignore it if they need to for their film plans.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lucasfilm-unveils-new-plans-star-698973

Thanks, didn't know that, the date thing I mean.

Though it would seem that Disney are cherry picking bits from the old EU, Ben (Jacen) Solo being one of them.

 

[Bladders]

According to the legends universe (no longer canon for the new films) Anakin was created by the force. Plagueis tried to create life using the dark side of the force, but failed. The force reacted to these attempts by creating the force-strong Anakin to give the light side of the force a chance against the powerful Plagueis (see a link earlier in the thread from my discussion with Triggaaar about this).

I missed the link. Can you post it again, or let me know what page it was on?

Cheers.

 

[Bladders]

SPOILER ALERT

 

[Triggaaar]

According to the legends universe (no longer canon for the new films) Anakin was created by the force. Plagueis tried to create life using the dark side of the force, but failed. The force reacted to these attempts by creating the force-strong Anakin to give the light side of the force a chance against the powerful Plagueis

You say 'no longer canon for the new films' - Legends Universe is a collection of everything pre April 2014, it wasn't ever canon. Right?

I missed the link. Can you post it again, or let me know what page it was on?

Cheers.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/lucasfilm-unveils-new-plans-star-698973

 

[Acker79]

I missed the link. Can you post it again, or let me know what page it was on?

Cheers.

Here

I've been doing some more research into Darth Plagueis.

One thing to note is, in the 'legend universe' (i.e. the spin off novels from the original and prequel trilogy) he suspended the law of two.

He was always in the background, more interested in research into midi (and maxi) chlorians than running the galaxy in the immediate time (it may have been a longer term goal after successfully achieving immortality one way or another). It was only after Palpatine was elected Chancellor that he killed Plagueis (the night before taking over, apparently, after an evening of experimental opera).

In this 'legends universe' Anakin wasn't directly created by Plagueis. In fact, Anakin was created by the force in reaction to Plagueis unsuccessful attempts to create a dark force-strong life he could manipulate.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis/Legends (old continuity 'legends universe')


His 'new universe' biography is a lot less detailed. None of the back story carries over. Palpatine's story to Anakin is more to tempt Anakin to join the dark side to use the life saving powers to save Padme.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis (current continuity 'new universe')


Interestingly, the novel of so much of the legend universe's information, Star Wars: Darth Plagueis has this cover:

Doesn't that look a bit like Snoke talking to Kylo Ren?

You say 'no longer canon for the new films' - Legends Universe is a collection of everything pre April 2014, it wasn't ever canon. Right?

It's a little complicated.

Lucas never read any of it, but welcomed fan creativity. They had stated that only the films (and clone wars cartoons) were canon, but also licensed authors to tell stories and maintained a level of control, implying a degree of officialness to the stories. They also later developed a database (called 'the holocron') to keep track of everything (such as books, comics, video games), and Lucas would check with it when writing the Prequels. I think what is and isn't canon is probably a bit more fluid than usual, due to everything (how long it's been out, the change of owner ship of the rights, different creative brain trusts for the new trilogy, etc.)

 

[Triggaaar]

It's a little complicated.

I'll pay attention.

Lucas never read any of it, but welcomed fan creativity. They had stated that only the films (and clone wars cartoons) were canon, but also licensed authors to tell stories and maintained a level of control, implying a degree of officialness to the stories. They also later developed a database (called 'the holocron') to keep track of everything (such as books, comics, video games), and Lucas would check with it when writing the Prequels. I think what is and isn't canon is probably a bit more fluid than usual, due to everything (how long it's been out, the change of owner ship of the rights, different creative brain trusts for the new trilogy, etc.)

Yes, sorry to be pedantic but it's not correct to write "According to the legends universe (no longer canon for the new films)", as they were never canon. There's a difference between checking the holocron and it being canon. It never was.

 

[Bladders]

Does this mean that the Star Wars Holiday special is no longer canon!!??


Happy life day everybody.

 

[Acker79]

I'll pay attention.
Yes, sorry to be pedantic but it's not correct to write "According to the legends universe (no longer canon for the new films)", as they were never canon. There's a difference between checking the holocron and it being canon. It never was.

But it wasn't just checking the holocron. It was also licensing books and video games, with a degree of creative control to ensure it fit with Lucasfilm's vision with an acceptance and authentication of the books implying continuity.

 

[Acker79]

Does this mean that the Star Wars Holiday special is no longer canon!!??


Happy life day everybody.

I've downloaded it from Youtube. Not watched it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0x-I06Fpc

 

[Bladders]

I've downloaded it from Youtube. Not watched it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX0x-I06Fpc

NEVER watch it if you love Star Wars.

You have been warned.

 

[Triggaaar]

But it wasn't just checking the holocron. It was also licensing books and video games, with a degree of creative control to ensure it fit with Lucasfilm's vision with an acceptance and authentication of the books implying continuity.

I know, but it still wasn't canon, and you were suggesting the Legends stuff used to be - it wasn't.

 

[Acker79]

I know, but it still wasn't canon, and you were suggesting the Legends stuff used to be - it wasn't.

You can argue that technicality if you like, but an overwhelming majority of star wars aficionados took what has become the legends universe as canon, and Lucas and Lucasfilms respected that and worked with it, going so far as to make changes to their own visions when it contradicted it, and advising some of the creators of the expanded universe stories.

 

[Triggaaar]

You can argue that technicality if you like, but an overwhelming majority of star wars aficionados took what has become the legends universe as canon

I didn't realise people thought the Expanded Universe was Canon - I thought there was a distinction. I'm not completely alone in that:

The official Star Wars website has also detailed the role of canon, expanded universe, or "EU" sources, and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. In a 2001 "Ask the Jedi Council" response by Steve Sansweet (director of fan relations) and Chris Cerasi (an editor for Lucas Books at the time), it was stated that:
When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.

 

[Bladders]

Battle of Jakku

Nothing to do with anything, just thought it was lovely artwork.

 

[Triggaaar]

Just seen this:

The Holocron is divided into five levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon. These levels are no longer in use after April 25, 2014.

No wonder there's confusion.

 

[Buzzer]

I went with my two sons to the iMax in Waterloo to see it today and so glad we waited until we could get good seats at that cinema. The 3D effects worked well and we felt fully immersed in the film - well worth the hassle of catching a 7.30 train to 3 Bridges, bus to E Grinstead and then train to London - and back! I'll probably go again locally to see the film too now.

I thought the film worked very well, plenty of plot gaps to be filled in and for people to discuss and I'm hoping the second and third are plot-driven rather than a special effects-fest. The new characters worked well with Chewy and Han Solo, they're believable and a far cry from Hayden whatsisname in that you can empathise with them. I, along with everyone in the audience, was horrified to see Han Solo die - his son's a bit whiny and the huge boss character looks out of place but these are minor quibbles. Thoroughly enjoyed it and even liked the new robot too which surprised me.

I don't think I'll delve too deeply into the links on here - the parentage of Rey and Finn along with other big questions - I hope I can last until the next film to find those answers but it's interesting seeing everybody's theories.

To add my own one - C3PO's red arm - it's covering up his tattoos. So obvious he would be a hipster.

 

[fire&skill]

I'm sure this has been written previously but it was interesting to see C3PO had a greater range of facial expressions than Carrie Fisher. In other news, got a full refund at the Odeon today after the projector failed. Five minutes of sound only followed by five minutes of silence. I think they couldn't find a Bic ballpoint to manually wind the tape back.