[Football] Southgate Out.

[blue-shifted]

FA can't afford to sack him. They've lost loads of matchday income as well remember. So this whole conversation is redundant

 

[Pavilionaire]

Okay now please show us all the teams we have beaten the lucky win in spain and the sweden win at the world cup the only two impressive wins I remember. It wouldn't be harsh it would be necessary he's useless.

Southgate's record against other FIFA Top 20 countries is P20 W7 D6 L7.

We've beaten Spain and the Dutch away from home, Croatia, Sweden, Colombia and the Swiss twice.

During his four years in charge he's been blessed with Harry Kane and - more recently - a maturing Raheem Sterling, but by England player standards since 66 I wouldn't say the squads have been particular strong - certainly no where near the quality that Sven had to work with.

His record against teams outside of the FIFA Top 20 has been exceptional P23 W18 D4 L1, so he has earned the right to be given time to come up with a plan for the Euros next year.

I believe TAA, Chilwell, Maguire, Henderson, Kane and Sterling are shoe-ins for the Euro Starting XI so he needs to find a keeper, 1 or 2 CBs, some creativity in midfield and he needs to get a front 3 that can play together. He also needs to clamp down on the lack of discipline. Personally, I think Pope, Dunk, Coady, Mount, Grealish and Rashford are those players.

 

[Nameless]

As opposed to all the previous England managers with tournament success and multiple wins against the best sides in the world? Who are you kidding. The brutal fact of the matter is we build up our 'world class' stars when actually they're not. We still aren't producing technical ability at the very highest level that wins you tournaments.

Southgate brings continuity from being involved in England's development sides, and that in turn has led to a lot of looking at youth. He's probably given more debuts than previous England managers too, and in some respects that is no bad thing.

The other question is who is in the succession plan? Serial winners like Germany have a plan in place, I'm not seeing any obvious candidates unless you spunk a shit load of money on a big name for yet more disappointment and failure to connect with what playing for England is about.

Could not disagree more, winning any tournament requires a good squad with key players and a manager with a very good plan. We have never had that. We currently have 2/3 of those requirements in place.. The FA have done remarkably well with the England youth teams regardless of who was managing them it's the club academies that have really upped their game, some may say the England U21 side last night wasn't far off the team that parked the bus against Denmark. Technical ability of the highest level are Harry Kane, Raheem Sterling, Jadon Sancho, Trent Alexander Arnold and numerous other players not classed as up there with the best in the world in their respective positions. You mention Germany they actually based there current model on ours.

Southgate is a massive reason why this team will achieve nothing.

 

[Nameless]

Southgate's record against other FIFA Top 20 countries is P20 W7 D6 L7.

We've beaten Spain and the Dutch away from home, Croatia, Sweden, Colombia and the Swiss twice.

During his four years in charge he's been blessed with Harry Kane and - more recently - a maturing Raheem Sterling, but by England player standards since 66 I wouldn't say the squads have been particular strong - certainly no where near the quality that Sven had to work with.

His record against teams outside of the FIFA Top 20 has been exceptional P23 W18 D4 L1, so he has earned the right to be given time to come up with a plan for the Euros next year.

I believe TAA, Chilwell, Maguire, Henderson, Kane and Sterling are shoe-ins for the Euro Starting XI so he needs to find a keeper, 1 or 2 CBs, some creativity in midfield and he needs to get a front 3 that can play together. He also needs to clamp down on the lack of discipline. Personally, I think Pope, Dunk, Coady, Mount, Grealish and Rashford are those players.

The columbia match lets face it was a draw.. Sweden was an impressive win but we should be beating them comfortably on paper. The only other win that really was impressive was the spain one. Dutch were still finding their feet, Croatia were still riding the high of beating us in the world cup semi didn't look bothered at all. Switzerland how are they even in the top 20?! The other teams me and you could probably get wins against managing that England side.

We'll agree to disagree but I would much rather he left before he has a chance to destroy the potential. You mention Dunk, Pope, Grealish three players who were probably the best 3 players in their positions in the whole bottom half of the prem last season.. Southgate is alienating them so he can keep picking the same old flops.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

winning any tournament requires a good squad with key players and a manager with a very good plan. We have never had that. We currently have 2/3 of those requirements in place..

Who is your choice for a “manger with a very good plan” who will single-handed change everything?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Southgate is a massive reason why this team will achieve nothing.

I recall the players rebelling against Capello's strict regime in South Africa, and we had a poor World Cup. Now we have Southgate it has gone the other way, with the players taking the piss. What hope is there for whoever taken on the job?

 

[Nameless]

I recall the players rebelling against Capello's strict regime in South Africa, and we had a poor World Cup. Now we have Southgate it has gone the other way, with the players taking the piss. What hope is there for whoever taken on the job?

I guarantee somebody like Gerrard or Dyche would command far more respect than either of those two.

 

[Swansman]

Who is your choice for a “manger with a very good plan” who will single-handed change everything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh6-dcpEHas

 

[Nameless]

But it's clearly NOT better than Portugal or else it would've won something! It's like revisiting the whole 'golden generation' nonsense from the early 2000s or hyping up the 1996 lot – just because people keep saying the squad is good enough and you believe it, doesn't mean that it actually IS...

All this talk of potential and talent pools is just that – all talk.

The team clearly can be better than Portugal one of the main reasons it can be considered NOT better than Portugal because of the shit manager.

 

[Nameless]

Who is your choice for a “manger with a very good plan” who will single-handed change everything?

My dog would come up with a better plan than southgate parking the bus with 5 at the back and 3 defensive midfielders against Denmark. Honestly name whoever you want.. Dyche, Gerrard, Howe, Wilder, Hughton would take them all over the current donkey.

 

[zefarelly]

Last England manager we had that came close to achieving anything was Terry Venables and just before that Bobby Robson . . . .the kind of manager with character that has some charisma to engage the egos and gets some respect from them as well.

An England manager with no charisma or repsect will never achieve anything with modern players, they're too powerful in their own right.

 

[Mellotron]

Okay now please show us all the teams we have beaten the lucky win in spain and the sweden win at the world cup the only two impressive wins I remember. It wouldn't be harsh it would be necessary he's useless.

I’m sorry but to say we were lucky against Spain is bollocks - we were superb that night, result was 3-2 but that flattered the Spanish massively.

 

[Nameless]

I’m sorry but to say we were lucky against Spain is bollocks - we were superb that night, result was 3-2 but that flattered the Spanish massively.

We had 3 shots they had something like 25.. Think they had like 75 percent of the ball. Hardly flattered them massively. It was an impressive but lucky win.

 

[Nameless]

We're gonna smash Belgium 3-0 now I've made this post I bet

 

[Bold Seagull]

My dog would come up with a better plan than southgate parking the bus with 5 at the back and 3 defensive midfielders against Denmark. Honestly name whoever you want.. Dyche, Gerrard, Howe, Wilder, Hughton would take them all over the current donkey.

You seem to have a slightly irrational dislike of him. I'm not saying he's brilliant by any stretch, but he has been better than many England managers, and many others would do a lot worse.

What England have always lacked, and it stems from our domestic game, is ball retention. The international game simply doesn't replicate anything like the football in our leagues, whereas Bundesliga, La Liga etc. it is more reflective of that careful attention to keeping the ball. The cut and thrust of those players you mention before, your Trent's, Stirling's etc. they're simply not as effective in internationals because when you lose the ball, you don't get it straight back like your Liverpool's and Man City's do. This was more than evident in the WC semi. No manager can get us round that I don't think, not until the PL changes and don't see that anytime soon.

 

[dangull]

Klopp would be my choice if he was available. I doubt he would want it though and he probably will be a future German manager.
More than 4 stars on a German jersey? we did win 2 world wars with a little help though.

 

[Nameless]

You seem to have a slightly irrational dislike of him. I'm not saying he's brilliant by any stretch, but he has been better than many England managers, and many others would do a lot worse.

What England have always lacked, and it stems from our domestic game, is ball retention. The international game simply doesn't replicate anything like the football in our leagues, whereas Bundesliga, La Liga etc. it is more reflective of that careful attention to keeping the ball. The cut and thrust of those players you mention before, your Trent's, Stirling's etc. they're simply not as effective in internationals because when you lose the ball, you don't get it straight back like your Liverpool's and Man City's do. This was more than evident in the WC semi. No manager can get us round that I don't think, not until the PL changes and don't see that anytime soon.

There'a nothing irrational about it. It's all justified I just don't think he's good enough for the job and have stated numerous reasons why. The point you make about Sterling, TAA ect.. in my opinion is not backed up well. England normally do win the ball back quickly in midfield and usually do have the bulk of possession or atleast a fair amount. The Croatia loss was more due to Southgates team selection.. Lingard, Alli both played in similar roles, he started with Kane & Sterling up top by themselves which has never worked before or since. Starting Lingard, Alli and Henderson as a midfield basically surrendered the midfield to Croatia, Trippier and Ashley Young as wing backs looked shot as well they could easily get through the lines. Just got it all wrong. Croatia had weaknesses Southgate didn't see them. In the nations league to be fair we played with Kane up top with Rashford and Sterling either side which put there defence under much more pressure. I just personally don't rate him and never really have.

 

[The Large One]

It could be argued that Brighton & Hove Albion are partially responsible for Southgate's stagnation.

Southgate and Dan Ashworth had a clear programme of England's immediate and medium-term future mapped out. Now with Ashworth down here, there is possibly an element of Clough without Taylor - he can't function anything like as well without him.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

It could be argued that Brighton & Hove Albion are partially responsible for Southgate's stagnation.

Southgate and Dan Ashworth had a clear programme of England's immediate and medium-term future mapped out. Now with Ashworth down here, there is possibly an element of Clough without Taylor - he can't function anything like as well without him.

Fantastic, why don't you shout that from the roof tops, it is not as if the rest of the footballing fraternity & media hate us enough already.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The columbia match lets face it was a draw.. Sweden was an impressive win but we should be beating them comfortably on paper. The only other win that really was impressive was the spain one. Dutch were still finding their feet, Croatia were still riding the high of beating us in the world cup semi didn't look bothered at all. Switzerland how are they even in the top 20?! The other teams me and you could probably get wins against managing that England side.

We'll agree to disagree but I would much rather he left before he has a chance to destroy the potential. You mention Dunk, Pope, Grealish three players who were probably the best 3 players in their positions in the whole bottom half of the prem last season.. Southgate is alienating them so he can keep picking the same old flops.

Indeed, Southgate's record against the Top 20 can be argued either way, and in among those 6 draws there were games we should have won: Spain equalizing in the 6th minute of injury time in 2016, Italy getting a controversial VAR penalty in the 87th minute to grab a late equaliser in 2018.

I fear we are in one of those places where his FA credentials plus historic results will ensure he is manager at Euro 2021 when - in terms of his potency as a manager - his bubble may have already burst.

He needs to stop pick players that are shit like Pickford, Dier, Mings, Phillips, Keane, Stones, and then stop playing others out of position like Walker at RCB and Trippier at LWB.