Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Hastings gull]

I commuted on that line for decades and only recently stopped. Too right it's vindictive. I used to regard Connex & Railtrack as The Great Satan. But they were just incompetent. This current lot are something else completely. Obscene levels of greed. Of course I hate seeing the levels of stress and anxiety being foisted on travellers on the mainline, but if a very short shutdown of the line forced the government into removing this wretched company from the franchise and replacing it with one that got paid according to performance, then IMHO it would be preferable to the current situation. There's only been a handful of strike dates, but the service is excrement every day. Presumably you'd be happy to see this situation continue until the end of Southern's contract?

You just can't avoid that unnecessary statement which brings down your case. I don't doubt that anyone who has to travel under these circumstances would get very annoyed, but we have now since heard yesterday that the situation has not been helped by RMT's inconsistent intransigence. Yet, you harp on about obscene greed, and blame southern for everything. How do you really know that it is obscene greed? Your use of the expression "a very short shutdown" is of course a convenient excuse for your standpoint -does the evidence so far really point to that? And then your final point which is really quite absurd -would anyone want this to continue indefinitely? But I am certain of one thing in all this mess - it is OTT attitudes and refusal to compromise which precludes any sort of agreement; recognise anyone?

 

[Gazwag]

No it's not that simple. There are a lot of excellent Southern staff trying their best with their hands tied by a woeful middle management.

Replace Southern with NHS - common theme

 

[Ernest]

Only the MANAGERS & CHARLES HORTON. Amd make it ilegal to re hire them. I think the others do a sterling job frankly.

Just needed correcting for you

 

[Ernest]

Removing the franchise from Southern will not resolve the issue.
Remove the existing staff will....it really is that simple.

Removing YOU from this thread would help

 

[mikeyjh]

It's breathtaking to still be blaming the guards isn't it?

Loads of trains 90 mins delayed last night, train to Vic cancelled from SBS this morning, it's constant, day after day week after week. Why do people buy, and support, corporate hogwash and happily knock the workers. Suggest you watch the Panorama programme.

 

[Ernest]

It's breathtaking to still be blaming the guards isn't it?

Loads of trains 90 mins delayed last night, train to Vic cancelled from SBS this morning, it's constant, day after day week after week. Why do people buy, and support, corporate hogwash and happily knock the workers. Suggest you watch the Panorama programme.

It's surely because of the staff having the 'sniffles' and going off sick isn't it ?

 

[Simster]

You just can't avoid that unnecessary statement which brings down your case. I don't doubt that anyone who has to travel under these circumstances would get very annoyed, but we have now since heard yesterday that the situation has not been helped by RMT's inconsistent intransigence. Yet, you harp on about obscene greed, and blame southern for everything. How do you really know that it is obscene greed? Your use of the expression "a very short shutdown" is of course a convenient excuse for your standpoint -does the evidence so far really point to that? And then your final point which is really quite absurd -would anyone want this to continue indefinitely? But I am certain of one thing in all this mess - it is OTT attitudes and refusal to compromise which precludes any sort of agreement; recognise anyone?

It does nothing of the sort. I find your perma-Tory defending utterly nausiating when unlike myself and THPP, you clearly don't use their terrible service anything approaching regularly.

 

[mikeyjh]

It's surely because of the staff having the 'sniffles' and going off sick isn't it ?

Haha - Well, at least they were honest, broken train this morning. Still, some will be delighted by the 27% increase in profits and laugh at us that are paying for the 'service'

 

[pearl]

It does nothing of the sort. I find your perma-Tory defending utterly nausiating when unlike myself and THPP, you clearly don't use their terrible service anything approaching regularly.

barely travels to the garden gate I reckon

 

[1066familyman]

It does nothing of the sort. I find your perma-Tory defending utterly nausiating when unlike myself and THPP, you clearly don't use their terrible service anything approaching regularly.

It's not only nausiating, it's deeply patronising and hypocritical when he/she claims to take the innocent moral high ground of neutrality whilst accusing anyone who dares support the workers and criticises the Government of "ideological diatribes".

I've given up trying to debate with him/her on this thread.

 

[Simster]

It's not only nausiating, it's deeply patronising and hypocritical when he/she claims to take the innocent moral high ground of neutrality whilst accusing anyone who dares support the workers and criticises the Government of "ideological diatribes".

I've given up trying to debate with him/her on this thread.

Yes, that too. How dare he take this pompous line that he is in any way neutral, regardless of his clear lack of experience in using their services? He's nothing of the sort and a blatant apologist for the dire status quo,

 

[pearl]

Yes, that too. How dare he take this pompous line that he is in any way neutral, regardless of his clear lack of experience in using their services? He's nothing of the sort and a blatant apologist for the dire status quo,

well, it's still a free country atm and I find their posts quite amusing ... I've never been called 'an extremist' before LOL

 

[Buzzer]

It's breathtaking to still be blaming the guards isn't it?

If there is one thing that is clear from this thread is that the guards are at least partly to blame for this mess. This doesn't take away anything from Southern's general incompetence but the guards are in no position to be claiming any moral high ground.

 

[Hastings gull]

It does nothing of the sort. I find your perma-Tory defending utterly nausiating when unlike myself and THPP, you clearly don't use their terrible service anything approaching regularly.

Had you bothered to really read my posts, which you clearly have not, then you would have seen that I regularly say that I am a layman on this and genuinely wish to get to the bottom of the situation. I have often said that if those who travel on the trains say that the management is bad, then they must know more than I do. The problem, as always, is those, clearly like yourself, who wish to turn it into some sort of political crusade, and ignore posts which do not fit the dogma. The whole mess becomes that shade worse, when you and your ilk can only come up with matters like your first sentence.
I do not subscribe to the theory that because I don't use the service that much, and you are right in that I don't, that this should mean that anyone's views are less valid. Of course it must be intensely frustrating when journeys are subjected to cancellation/disruption etc, but it is important to have a clear view and retain some sort of balance to ascertain the FACTS. On the subject of finding something nauseating, it is spelt with an "e".

 

[Yoda]

It's breathtaking to still be blaming the guards isn't it?

Loads of trains 90 mins delayed last night, train to Vic cancelled from SBS this morning, it's constant, day after day week after week. Why do people buy, and support, corporate hogwash and happily knock the workers. Suggest you watch the Panorama programme.

Pathetic isn't it. Was quicker for me to walk home from Durrington Station to near Worthing Hospital last night than it would've if I had waited for a train.

 

[Simster]

Had you bothered to really read my posts, which you clearly have not, then you would have seen that I regularly say that I am a layman on this and genuinely wish to get to the bottom of the situation. I have often said that if those who travel on the trains say that the management is bad, then they must know more than I do. The problem, as always, is those, clearly like yourself, who wish to turn it into some sort of political crusade, and ignore posts which do not fit the dogma. The whole mess becomes that shade worse, when you and your ilk can only come up with matters like your first sentence.
I do not subscribe to the theory that because I don't use the service that much, and you are right in that I don't, that this should mean that anyone's views are less valid. Of course it must be intensely frustrating when journeys are subjected to cancellation/disruption etc, but it is important to have a clear view and retain some sort of balance to ascertain the FACTS. On the subject of finding something nauseating, it is spelt with an "e".

Absolute drivel from start to finish. I've read your posts, they ARE nausEating. Had YOU bothered to read MY posts, you'd know I don't seek to politicise the issue at all, I'd take the old set-up at a stroke right now because anecdotally the service prior to 2015 wasn't much different from the old BR days. You don't have a "clear view" or "balance" at all. Everything you say is pure drivel, especially accusing THPP's argument of falling down because of one irrelevant sentence. Why don't you come back when you've actually used the service eh? It is dreadful. You would see for yourself the appalling contempt the company holds us passengers in. I'm not saying the unions aren't partly to blame, because they are compounding the misery. But the fact is, the company and government are unequivocally 90% responsible for this total shambles.

 

[Hastings gull]

It's not only nausiating, it's deeply patronising and hypocritical when he/she claims to take the innocent moral high ground of neutrality whilst accusing anyone who dares support the workers and criticises the Government of "ideological diatribes".

I've given up trying to debate with him/her on this thread.

Yes, the usual, isn't it? I have given up on debating with anyone who does not share my view . Pompous and arrogant in equal measure.Yesterday we had a really good insight into what has been going on from someone who KNOWS what they are talking about, and is in the industry. It was quite clear from what was explained that the unions are by no means whiter than white, and he was clearly not biased, as he made the point, and has done so again since, that Southern's management is so poor. Strange how we didn't hear from you then -obviously not what you wanted to hear, was it? Reality can be quite inconvenient, can't it?
You do not have to use their services to have a valid view - that is an absurd statement, and you would not subscribe to that in other circumstances. Take that further - you don't live near HS2, so should never comment on that. You don't live in France so should never comment on le Pen, and I could go on.

 

[Simster]

If there is one thing that is clear from this thread is that the guards are at least partly to blame for this mess. This doesn't take away anything from Southern's general incompetence but the guards are in no position to be claiming any moral high ground.

I'd agree with this. I'd have a lot more respect for them if they were being honest about their reasoning. That said, the buck stops with the shambolic company and the government for handing them this uniquely ill-considered type of franchise. I genuinely find two things absolutely astonishing:

1) that the government show no appetite for calling the rail company to account for this utter disgrace
2) that Charles Horton hasn't been booted out for gross incompetence. If he can run a railway company then so can I.

 

[Hastings gull]

Absolute drivel from start to finish. I've read your posts, they ARE nausEating. Had YOU bothered to read MY posts, you'd know I don't seek to politicise the issue at all, I'd take the old set-up at a stroke right now because anecdotally the service prior to 2015 wasn't much different from the old BR days. You don't have a "clear view" or "balance" at all. Everything you say is pure drivel, especially accusing THPP's argument of falling down because of one irrelevant sentence. Why don't you come back when you've actually used the service eh? It is dreadful. You would see for yourself the appalling contempt the company holds us passengers in. I'm not saying the unions aren't partly to blame, because they are compounding the misery. But the fact is, the company and government are unequivocally 90% responsible for this total shambles.

I might have taken this seriously, had you not decided in the earlier post to bring in the bias about Tory defending. So you cannot talk about the fact that you have not politicised the mess. I do not doubt that the service is dreadful, and you have my sympathy, rest assured. I see that you now accept that the unions might just have contributed to the shambles, so perhaps what I wrote is not that nauseating? Yesterdays' post, as I explained, was quite illuminating, if you are prepared to take an open view. I fully accept that if you are stuck in the cold and rain waiting for a crowded train to arrive, then a balanced view is that shade more difficult to come to, because you are sick of the whole thing.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I have given up on debating with anyone who does not share my view .

Clearly