So who is in the 65% of people that agreed to the Vogue Gyratory 'improvements'?

[element]

Just had an e-mail from B&H council, saying 65% of the 4166 respondents (79% of which were 'local') agreed with the 'improvements' to the Vogue, or is it Vague, Gyratory system

How altering the northbound flow from three lanes, if you include the lane leading to Hollingdean Road, to effectively one lane, is going to 'improve' anything is beyond me, and the rest of the 35% who voted against...

Would be interesting to see the official figures

 

[The Large One]

Overwhelming 'yes' for Lewes Road bus and bike lanes

An overwhelming majority of residents are backing council plans to install dedicated bus and cycle lanes along one of the main routes into Brighton.

In April and May Brighton & Hove City Council ran a six-week public consultation on proposals to improve safety and traffic flows on Lewes Road. A key feature of the plan involved two-metre wide cycle lanes running north and south through the Vogue gyratory near Sainsbury’s.

Half of the width of the current dual carriageway between the Vogue and Falmer stadium would be used for bus and bike lanes, leaving one lane in each direction for cars and other traffic.

Around 31,000 local addresses were consulted by post with thousands more consulted citywide and at both universities. Over 4100 responses were received. Eighty two per cent of respondents to the survey were residents, 16 per cent working in the area and seven per cent students. 13 exhibitions were held.

65% supported the idea of better bike lanes through the Vogue gyratory. 63% approved of the proposed bus and bike lanes on Lewes Road. Of these, 81%wanted buses and bikes to have their own lanes, rather than a combined one.

Officials say such changes would increase uptake of cycling, reduce traffic by 10%, increase bus use by 25% and improve bus journey times by 30%.

People who opposed the ideas were mainly concerned about any changes causing traffic jams. Officials say modelling suggests this is generally unlikely.

The council has also agreed to keep some parking bays, which would have been removed, in order to service Weston’s pharmacy near the Coombe Road junction.

Findings will be reported to the council’s transport committee on 2 October. At this meeting, councillors will be asked to approve advertising formal traffic orders for the council to make the changes. Any adverts would appear in early October, before 21 days of public consultation.

A council spokesman said: “The response from local people who live in the area has been very clear. They recognise these changes would make the road safer for cyclists, encourage cycling and improve bus services.

“But ultimately these changes will improve things for everybody, whichever mode of transport they choose to use.”


Background

The project will be funded with £4.2m won from the government’s sustainable transport fund. Another £2.25 is coming from partners including Brighton & Hove Bus Company, the universities of Sussex and Brighton, plus Brighton & Hove Primary Care Trust.

Around £1m will be spent on the road, including the bus and bike lanes, plus various other physical improvements. The remaining funding will be spent on a range of other initiatives including personalised travel planning and working with schools and universities.

The proposals are

• Bus and cycle lane in both directions on the dual carriageway section of Lewes Road between The Vogue gyratory and the A27 at Falmer.

• On-road two-metre northbound cycle lane through the Vogue gyratory - there is already a southbound cycle lane here. There will also be improved pedestrian facilities and more efficient traffic lights to aid the flow of traffic. The existing southbound cycle lane would also be widened to two metres through the gyratory system

• Improved facilities for pedestrians and cyclists at the junctions of Saunders Park View and Coombe Road

• Widened shared cycle and pedestrian path adjacent to Lewes Road north of Coldean Lane.

• Enhanced cycle network in the north of the area with improved signage and access to Brighton and Sussex University Campuses as well as the Amex Stadium.

• 30mph speed limit extended northwards to the A27 at Falmer, currently 40mph.

 

[Daffy Duck]

It'll always be known as the Vogue Constipatory System to me.

 

[Seasidesage]

Strange because everyone I have spoken to living near Coombe Rd/Bear Road is violently against this stupid, stupid idea. Of course we are just the poor sods who have to live here so our vote is obviously less important that a student who is only here for 3 years and pays nothing into the upkeep of these roads...

You can get any answer you want if you manipulate the question and who is asked it...

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Strange because everyone I have spoken to living near Coombe Rd/Bear Road is violently against this stupid, stupid idea.

Ah, the trusted "everyone I've spoken to" method of statistical analysis. Good job policies aren't based on this method eh.

 

[The Large One]

Strange because everyone I have spoken to living near Coombe Rd/Bear Road is violently against this stupid, stupid idea. Of course we are just the poor sods who have to live here so our vote is obviously less important that a student who is only here for 3 years and pays nothing into the upkeep of these roads...

You can get any answer you want if you manipulate the question and who is asked it...

It's hard to know where to start with that post.

 

[Gwylan]

Ah, the trusted "everyone I've spoken to" method of statistical analysis. Good job policies aren't based on this method eh.

It's a good job the council didn't listen to the people of Falmer (rather than casting the net a bit wider) when deciding whether to give the go-ahead for the stadium. Would Seasidesage have thought the "everyone I've spoken to" method was so great then?

BTW, I was one of the 65%

 

[Seasidesage]

It's a good job the council didn't listen to the people of Falmer (rather than casting the net a bit wider) when deciding whether to give the go-ahead for the stadium. Would Seasidesage have thought the "everyone I've spoken to" method was so great then?

BTW, I was one of the 65%

Gwylan I never claimed that my view was representative, what I said was you can get any answer you want to a question if you ask it in a correct way for example.

"Do you think that better cycle lanes are a good idea?" Who wouldn't think that was a good idea? On the other other hand, if you asked do you think closing one lane on one of the busiest roads in central Brighton, which is already a huge bottleneck and congestion blackspot in order to expand an existing cycle lane. You may have got a very different answer.

As to who should've been asked. Where do you draw the line? If you want a yes answer asking students is clearly going to get you the answer you require. On the other hand when you ask people who will spend an hour on a Friday night travelling the last mile of their journey the same question their answer is clearly going to be different, which is why they ensured they had the balance just right.

Falmer is just a silly response, the people of Woodingdean for example, who are going to be directly affected by this 'improvement' should certainly have been consulted, but then the Greens would'nt have got 65% approval, would they?

 

[Gwylan]

Gwylan I never claimed that my view was representative, what I said was you can get any answer you want to a question if you ask it in a correct way for example.

"Do you think that better cycle lanes are a good idea?" Who wouldn't think that was a good idea? On the other other hand, if you asked do you think closing one lane on one of the busiest roads in central Brighton, which is already a huge bottleneck and congestion blackspot in order to expand an existing cycle lane. You may have got a very different answer.

As to who should've been asked. Where do you draw the line? If you want a yes answer asking students is clearly going to get you the answer you require. On the other hand when you ask people who will spend an hour on a Friday night travelling the last mile of their journey the same question their answer is clearly going to be different, which is why they ensured they had the balance just right.

Falmer is just a silly response, the people of Woodingdean for example, who are going to be directly affected by this 'improvement' should certainly have been consulted, but then the Greens would'nt have got 65% approval, would they?

But they didn't just ask students did they? I was asked and I'm certainly not a student. Our neighbours were asked too - and they're not students either.

I don't know why you think that the council divied up the survey according to how much travelling they do - they asked people who lived off Lewes Rd (Coombe Rd, Moulsecoomb, Coldean etc).

I'm not sure why you're so surprised at the result: the Vogue Gyratory is a nightmare to negotiate and successive councils have looked for ways to fix it. There's been talk about changing it for at least 10 years.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I wonder what percentage of the 82% who responded by saying they were residents are actually in fact students

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Overwhelming 'yes' for Lewes Road bus and bike lanes

An overwhelming majority of residents are backing council plans to install dedicated bus and cycle lanes along one of the main routes into Brighton.

I hardly call 2139 residents voting in favour an overwhelming majority of residents - it is an overwhelming majority of locals who bothered to respond but given the thousands that live either side of Lewes Road I'd suggest only a minority have agreed to it.

Now I know we're different ends of the spectrum when it comes to Green ( capital G not small G ) issues but re-posting what is clearly council propaganda is unlike you.

 

[Firingblanks1]

Me. Great news, given it will be safer to cycle to the Amex!

 

[element]

Ah, the trusted "everyone I've spoken to" method of statistical analysis. Good job policies aren't based on this method eh.

So you follow the, 'It's in a Council e-mail, so must be true...' method then?

It just seemed a bit fishy to me to be honest. If 79% of the 65% were local, it surprises me greatly that they can't see, or had the wool pulled over their eyes, that the alteration to the VGS will have anything but a marked detrimental effect on traffic flow

When I went to the presentation in my area, the chap said they projected it would add TWO minutes to the journey from Viaduct Road/The Level northbound to Sussex University. Anybody who regularly travels that bit of road, up to the dual carriageway at the bus depot would take some convincing this scheme would have such little impact

Of course, we live in a democracy, and due process will be observed, but I'm honing my 'I told you so' in anticipation

 

[Diego Napier]

Strange because everyone I have spoken to living near Coombe Rd/Bear Road is violently against this stupid, stupid idea. Of course we are just the poor sods who have to live here so our vote is obviously less important that a student who is only here for 3 years and pays nothing into the upkeep of these roads...

You can get any answer you want if you manipulate the question and who is asked it...

Hahaha! Brilliant!

You selected who you asked and got the answer that you wanted. Quel surprise

 

[vegster]

It will end in tears....I really can't wait to do the drive down from Coldean and get to the section heading south from Bighton Universtiy-Coombe Road- Bear Road.. what with all the take away delivery drivers illegally parked cars and weaving cyclists and now busses....disaster.

 

[Seasidesage]

It really is hard to think of a worse idea enviromentally than the one they are proposing IMO. Rush hour is already a nightmare on that Road with traffic backing up as far as Brighton Uni from the Vogue. It is difficult to negiotate as a cyclist and I for one would be all in favour of making Lewes Rd a 'Red route' and expanding the cycle lane appropriately. However what they are proposing will cause massive delays and IMO increase the dangers for cyclists at the pinch points, such as the bottom of Coombe Rd or the Vogue itself.

IMO again, the Greens are pushing an agenda without any real consideration of the actual layout of this Road. As said by others it looks like we are going to find out. I fully expect it to be as successful as their other genius schemes like the road to Peacehaven or cutting Brighton in half by closing Viaduct Road to two way traffic. Still I wouldn't have a clue as I have only lived here for 50 years...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It really is hard to think of a worse idea enviromentally than the one they are proposing IMO. Rush hour is already a nightmare on that Road with traffic backing up as far as Brighton Uni from the Vogue. It is difficult to negiotate as a cyclist and I for one would be all in favour of making Lewes Rd a 'Red route' and expanding the cycle lane appropriately. However what they are proposing will cause massive delays and IMO increase the dangers for cyclists at the pinch points, such as the bottom of Coombe Rd or the Vogue itself.

IMO again, the Greens are pushing an agenda without any real consideration of the actual layout of this Road. As said by others it looks like we are going to find out. I fully expect it to be as successful as their other genius schemes like the road to Peacehaven or cutting Brighton in half by closing Viaduct Road to two way traffic. Still I wouldn't have a clue as I have only lived here for 50 years...

I think you're forgetting that the Green agenda is to block the car part of the road so badly that eventually every car driver won't use the area - good for a handful of cyclists but bad for all the retail outlets of the area.

 

[Postman Pat]

I voted against, don't think reducing capacity on one the busiest roads in Brighton town centre is a great idea.

I appreciate that the money to pay for this is coming from central government funds, but who pays for the up-keep of cycle lanes? Is that the same pot or does that come out of local council road maintenance funds?

Serious question, I don't know the answer.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I voted for it and live around the corner, drivings a pain in Brighton anyway. It will make cycling to and from the AMEX (university) a lot safer, and protecting life is a good thing.

 

[element]

It might just be the case that we are a smallish Regency seaside town, with a population of approx. 155 000 souls, and the standard of living has improved so much that a large proportion own a car, and the place is just filled to the gunwales with the things, and there is no room to manoeuvre left

What I find galling is they are not honest about their agenda. If they came out and said they would do all they could to deter vehicles operating in the city, it would be a surefire vote-loser, so naturally they don't go to the polls on this ticket. However, the constant, misleading dressing-up of anti-vehicle measures as 'improvements' is a masterwork of propaganda...

It's just dishonest at the end of the day...