[Politics] Should Lewis Hamilton be knighted?

[Weststander]

Nothing to do with the colour of his skin, why are you making such an issue about it? Its everything to do with him using an off shore (BVI) company to buy a £16 million pound jet and avoid paying tax on it. Probably perfectly legal but morally wrong. I would same the same about JRM and many of the other people in power who use loophole to avoid paying their fair share (and I frequently do on other forums). This was specifically about Hamilton receiving a knighthood. I don't think tax evaders should be rewarded/honoured. Just to be absolutely clear if this thread was about Phillip Green and his dodgy wife I would still be venting my spleen. I abhor racism on every level, but I'm not going to say tax evasion is ok because someones black!

LH is not a tax evader, that’s illegal.

Until your post, I’ve never heard anyone say that.

Button and plenty of others living in tax havens received honours, without a peep on NSC.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Paddy Lowe disagrees with you.





Button won 8 races(more than he did in the rest of his career), had 25 podiums(the same number as in the rest of his career) and finished 5th, 2nd and 5th in the championship in the three years he was Hamilton's team mate. I'm not entirely convinced that's the back of the grid.



Alsonso won four races, 12 podiums and finished third in the championship in his one season at McClaren. He led the championship for a large duration of it. Again, I'm not wholly convinced that that equates to being 'eaten' by the team.




https://www.imdb.com/news/ni61585999

He also donated $500,000 to help fight the Australian bush fires in January.

Can he have a knighthood now?

Thanks for the video, I only got to 7.30 mins as I thought there was going to be for and against debate. It was clearly a blow smoke up lewis ring piece production.

Funded by whom Lewis marketing team

The only way for big balls Hamilton to show his true worth as I said before is to drive a Haas next season and prove his skill. Okay, so I will level up the field a bit, lets put him in a Renault and show his real ability.

He won't do it because he is good but the car makes him appear great when a car has the dominance of Merc over the past 6 years.
When you have the cash you have the ability to form a talented team back in the garage. Nothing has changed for 100 years.

There is clearly is a split on this 60/40.

If it had been 95/5 split to Hamilton then maybe people could suggest I have a reason for prejudice.

Hamilton is good but not the best.


Do the Mercedes team all deserve knighthoods also, they have dominated?

 

[Brian Fantana]

Putting aside my personal thoughts on the whole honours system, if it is consistent with what has gone before then - yes - Lewis should get the knighthood.

At a time when it is embarrassing to be British he is still there, doing his thing and reinforcing the idea that we can still produce excellence.

This sums up exactly my thinking too, but put more succinctly than I could manage!

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Just a reminder of how dominant a great car is with 3 more races to go. When you double second places points you know the car is a huge part of it. It is a procession that has been financed and engineered by Mercedes and I take my hat off to them.

But so boring they need capping.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Just a reminder of how dominant a great car is with 3 more races to go. When you double second places points you know the car is a huge part of it. It is a procession that has been financed and engineered by Mercedes and I take my hat off to them.

But so boring they need capping.

I don't think I’ve seen anyone say the mercedes isn't the superior car. It is, as a collective they’ve nailed it, and of course there are many parts to that success, including Hamilton. They haven't always been the best, as others have pointed out to you, but have always kept themselves in the mix.

The table above highlights this but also the mess the other teams have got themselves in trying to chase down Mercs and Hamilton. If Red Bull had a more experienced second driver, that gap would be 100 points less. Ferrari have imploded in their attempt, and seem to be intentionally punishing Vettel as well.

You ignore the achievements of Hamilton is feeder series where in equal equip he excelled. You ignore he always end up beating his teammate. You ignore how his team mates appear to run for the hills after competing with him, Alonso, Rosberg.

Your position that he should drop to a lower team to prove his worth is weak. Not sure anyone would say Messi doesn't deserve accolades until he drops to Stoke and wins the Champions League.

Toto Wolff owns 30% of the Mercs team. An individual. He has been desperate to keep Hamilton, pays him, what, £20m, £30m a year. 30% of that is out of his own pocket.

Interestingly Wolff said drivers in F1 who complain that Hamilton has the best car should look at themselves on why they are not in the Merc. But i guess you know more

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't think I’ve seen anyone say the mercedes isn't the superior car. It is, as a collective they’ve nailed it, and of course there are many parts to that success, including Hamilton. They haven't always been the best, as others have pointed out to you, but have always kept themselves in the mix.

The table above highlights this but also the mess the other teams have got themselves in trying to chase down Mercs and Hamilton. If Red Bull had a more experienced second driver, that gap would be 100 points less. Ferrari have imploded in their attempt, and seem to be intentionally punishing Vettel as well.

You ignore the achievements of Hamilton is feeder series where in equal equip he excelled. You ignore he always end up beating his teammate. You ignore how his team mates appear to run for the hills after competing with him, Alonso, Rosberg.

Your position that he should drop to a lower team to prove his worth is weak. Not sure anyone would say Messi doesn't deserve accolades until he drops to Stoke and wins the Champions League.

Toto Wolff owns 30% of the Mercs team. An individual. He has been desperate to keep Hamilton, pays him, what, £20m, £30m a year. 30% of that is out of his own pocket.

Interestingly Wolff said drivers in F1 who complain that Hamilton has the best car should look at themselves on why they are not in the Merc. But i guess you know more

Mouldy is all about supporting Britain, British achievement, and getting behind being British. Except when it suits him.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Thanks for the video, I only got to 7.30 mins as I thought there was going to be for and against debate. It was clearly a blow smoke up lewis ring piece production.

Funded by whom Lewis marketing team

The only way for big balls Hamilton to show his true worth as I said before is to drive a Haas next season and prove his skill. Okay, so I will level up the field a bit, lets put him in a Renault and show his real ability.

He won't do it because he is good but the car makes him appear great when a car has the dominance of Merc over the past 6 years.
When you have the cash you have the ability to form a talented team back in the garage. Nothing has changed for 100 years.

There is clearly is a split on this 60/40.

If it had been 95/5 split to Hamilton then maybe people could suggest I have a reason for prejudice.

Hamilton is good but not the best.


Do the Mercedes team all deserve knighthoods also, they have dominated?

Would I be right in assuming you don't know who Paddy Lowe is?

If ever there was someone with a vested interest in arguing car over driver it would be someone like Paddy Lowe. An engineer who has been instrumental in the design and development of world championship winning cars for Williams, McLaren and Mercedes, including Hamilton's world title at Mclaren and his first two at Mercedes as well as the year Rosberg won.

You don't find it worth listening to someone who has intimate knowledge of both the design and construction of the cars and the driver? Someone who has a far better knowledge of everything and everyone involved than anyone on NSC. You don't think it's worth taking note when he puts the onus and emphasis on Hamilton as a driver over the cars? The cars that he designed and built.

As for the rest, it doesn't need an answer, it's been answered many times already.

 

[theroyal]

I don't think there are many drivers who couldn't win the odd race in the Mercedes. But I don't think there are many drivers who can do that repeatedly over the course of a season when Lewis is in the other seat. There's your key. Just look at Rosberg, it took him so much to win that title that he retired afterwards.

And the last guy to win a Driver's title in a car that didn't win the Constructor's title? A certain LH.

 

[Icy Gull]

Succinct and 100% correct. If you are the best driver you get yourself in the best car, almost without exception.

Bottas is possibly the best behind Hamilton and Verstappen. Arguably Ricciardo is in the mix too but Bottas is written off as shit by people who aren’t F1 fans because he can’t get close to beating Hamilton consistently. He would be the top driver in every other team other than Red Bull.

 

[FatSuperman]

The barely concealed racism still going strong I see. Very good.


Really enjoyed the bit about the jet. I suspect the poster thinks that everyone else rich enough to afford a jet doesn't do exactly the same thing. How many jets are purchased and registered in the UK? A small fraction I suspect, because there are entirely legal ways of reducing that tax. I wonder who benefits most from those loopholes? Is it black sportspeople, or rich white men? Nobody on here gives a shit about what tax is paid on jets unless the one not paying the tax is black. Anyone who says otherwise is naïve or a total liar.

 

[Weststander]

Succinct and 100% correct. If you are the best driver you get yourself in the best car, almost without exception.

Bottas is possibly the best behind Hamilton and Verstappen. Arguably Ricciardo is in the mix too but Bottas is written off as shit by people who aren’t F1 fans because he can’t get close to beating Hamilton consistently. He would be the top driver in every other team other than Red Bull.

Would Ferrari have won a couple of driver's titles with Hamilton in these very recent years? We'll never know, but in both 2017 and 2018 they developed a faster car than Mercedes, putting the latter under a lot of pressure. Vettel and Raikkonen were flying. But you could see LH's sheer force of will and immense skill in any conditions, still giving him the edge. Almost inevitably Ferrari and Vettel cracked at vital moments.

LH plays mind games without the verbals, simply by being unerringly near perfect as a driver and competitor.

 

[crodonilson]

Unfortunately Britain doesn't really like ice cold, calculated, self confident winners, even less so ice cold, self confident black winners. As this thread shows.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Unfortunately Britain doesn't really like ice cold, calculated, self confident winners, even less so ice cold, self confident black winners. As this thread shows.

Well said crodo.

It's interesting that the Hamilton haters have mainly fallen away in the face of being given lots of facts and stuff.

Proudly still holding up the "I'm a racist moron who knows nothing about sport" card of course, is Mouldy.

Quell surprise.

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Farcical giving sports people knighthoods...............

 

[BrickTamland]

The only thing for sure is that if everything here was the same, other than Hamilton was white and went to a public school, this question wouldn’t get to 44 pages.

Make of that what you will

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I don't think I’ve seen anyone say the mercedes isn't the superior car. It is, as a collective they’ve nailed it, and of course there are many parts to that success, including Hamilton. They haven't always been the best, as others have pointed out to you, but have always kept themselves in the mix.

The table above highlights this but also the mess the other teams have got themselves in trying to chase down Mercs and Hamilton. If Red Bull had a more experienced second driver, that gap would be 100 points less. Ferrari have imploded in their attempt, and seem to be intentionally punishing Vettel as well.

You ignore the achievements of Hamilton is feeder series where in equal equip he excelled. You ignore he always end up beating his teammate. You ignore how his team mates appear to run for the hills after competing with him, Alonso, Rosberg.

Your position that he should drop to a lower team to prove his worth is weak. Not sure anyone would say Messi doesn't deserve accolades until he drops to Stoke and wins the Champions League.

Toto Wolff owns 30% of the Mercs team. An individual. He has been desperate to keep Hamilton, pays him, what, £20m, £30m a year. 30% of that is out of his own pocket.

Interestingly Wolff said drivers in F1 who complain that Hamilton has the best car should look at themselves on why they are not in the Merc. But i guess you know more

Mouldy is all about supporting Britain, British achievement, and getting behind being British. Except when it suits him.

Would I be right in assuming you don't know who Paddy Lowe is?

If ever there was someone with a vested interest in arguing car over driver it would be someone like Paddy Lowe. An engineer who has been instrumental in the design and development of world championship winning cars for Williams, McLaren and Mercedes, including Hamilton's world title at Mclaren and his first two at Mercedes as well as the year Rosberg won.

You don't find it worth listening to someone who has intimate knowledge of both the design and construction of the cars and the driver? Someone who has a far better knowledge of everything and everyone involved than anyone on NSC. You don't think it's worth taking note when he puts the onus and emphasis on Hamilton as a driver over the cars? The cars that he designed and built.

As for the rest, it doesn't need an answer, it's been answered many times already.

Hammy: Your first sentence says what I have been trying to get across, so no need to go deeper.

I have also said Hamiltons is good but not as good as what his world championships make out? Alonso, Senna, Stewart, Clarke are all ahead of him in my book.

Is he likeable, No, because he has been so good at being an arse IMO, he was maturing until he brought his politics into it?

You guys keep believing he is the best if you wish, but go within motorsport and you might find differing opinions.

Gazza: Paddy Lowe was one of the main men, but he isn't a showboat. So often the guys behind the scenes deserve the plaudits but are the way too modest to lay claim to them. He may respect Hamilton one level, but I am sure there is a bit of what a **** on a different level. He was never going to say anything else.
You will have to trust me when I say I know both sides of the coin, engineer and driver side and a good chunk of the credit should lay with the engineer. If there is a Knighthood they want to give away perhaps they should look Ross Brawns way ahead of Hamilton.

Boldy: you have your summary on me about right. But I don't dislike European people as you think, just the Union. But British people can be arses also you know.

I am going to leave it there guys. Hooray I here you cry.

Of course, your welcome for your comebacks but, that's me done.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Would Ferrari have won a couple of driver's titles with Hamilton in these very recent years? We'll never know, but in both 2017 and 2018 they developed a faster car than Mercedes, putting the latter under a lot of pressure. Vettel and Raikkonen were flying. But you could see LH's sheer force of will and immense skill in any conditions, still giving him the edge. Almost inevitably Ferrari and Vettel cracked at vital moments.

LH plays mind games without the verbals, simply by being unerringly near perfect as a driver and competitor.

As you say we’ll never know but i suspect he would have won a championship with them.

I love the fact whenever he doesn't get pole, its not because his rival had a great lap, its because he messed up or had a problem and his lap (usually in these circumstances still good enough for second) was rubbish. Mind games up there with the best.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The barely concealed racism still going strong I see. Very good.


Really enjoyed the bit about the jet. I suspect the poster thinks that everyone else rich enough to afford a jet doesn't do exactly the same thing. How many jets are purchased and registered in the UK? A small fraction I suspect, because there are entirely legal ways of reducing that tax. I wonder who benefits most from those loopholes? Is it black sportspeople, or rich white men? Nobody on here gives a shit about what tax is paid on jets unless the one not paying the tax is black. Anyone who says otherwise is naïve or a total liar.

Call yourself a superhero, but still stirring the race debate, Sort yourself out mate.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Well said crodo.

It's interesting that the Hamilton haters have mainly fallen away in the face of being given lots of facts and stuff.

Proudly still holding up the "I'm a racist moron who knows nothing about sport" card of course, is Mouldy.

Quell surprise.

Perfect timing, only minutes later he has fallen away too. Great to see many on NSC collectively defend a great British champion.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

I love Hamilton
I think he deserves a knighthood
He is the most successful F1 driver the sport has known


However anyone who doesn't agree with me should not automatically be labelled a racist. Of course their are racial issues with this subject but to label someone racist because they dislike Lewis or think he is not worthy of the award because he is in the most dominant team is wrong. That surely does not mean their opinions are racially motivated.