Should Grounds be All-Seater?

[Gritt23]

I have long held the view that the Hillsbrough disaster had more to do with the design of the terrace rather than the fact that terraces are just dangerous.

- one entrance tunnel leading onto the same section.
- openings into other sections, just at the very top of the section.
- high spiked fences preventing fans spilling onto the pitch

Plus the way the crowd was controlled outside, and of course the opening of the gate - however the disaster may have just happened outside if this had not been opened.

Overall though the problems that lead to that dreadful day were not purely down to the fact that people were standing rather than sitting. I strongly believe that the compulsory all-seater stadiums was the wrong way to go aa a result of the Taylor enquiry.

The atmosphere is nowhere near as good, and far too many people are being priced out of supporting as they can't afford a seat every week. As a kid I could find a fiver each week to stand on the North, but would I now be able to stump up £20-30 (depending on who I support) each week from my paper round? Not a chance.

... but what does everyone else think?

 

[Yorkie]

I agree wholeheartedly

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

Agreed, there is no real reason anymore why all seater grounds have to be the norm. It was never the terracing in the first place, as well know. We savour the likes of Brentford and Peterborough so much becuase that's how football should be.

 

[Gritt23]

I was hoping you would respond Yorkie.

Were you living in Yorkshire in 1989? Are terraces a dirty word, or do people accept that it wasn't the terraces par se that caused the dreadful events?

The amazing thing is that Haillsbrough was one of the best grounds in the country, yet it could NEVER have happened at the Goldstone. The entrance to the North Stand was a walkway across the back of the terrace and if the middle section was full it took 2 stewards to point you down to the wings.

 

[zefarelly]

agreed Gritt . . . . .Hillsborough was a result of overexcited Liverpool fans (quite understandable) and totally fuckwitted incompetent policing.

terracing should be safer than seating . . . . . .and seating ruins the atmosphere from a singing/lads point of view, although obviosly it has its place in all sports, and every ground, for the elderly, family, and dissabled.

seating in an uncovered environment is just appaling . . . .like sitting in a puddle

 

[Yorkie]

I was hoping you would respond Yorkie.

Were you living in Yorkshire in 1989? Are terraces a dirty word, or do people accept that it wasn't the terraces par se that caused the dreadful events?

The amazing thing is that Haillsbrough was one of the best grounds in the country, yet it could NEVER have happened at the Goldstone. The entrance to the North Stand was a walkway across the back of the terrace and if the middle section was full it took 2 stewards to point you down to the wings.

Yes I was here then & of course some of you know that Ned was a Wednesday fan so we know Hillsborough quite well.

Terracing was not the cause of the problem. Leppings Lane should have been closed off completely, the stewarding and policing were to blame and lack of proper crush barriers.

Seating is not the answer and people who know me, know I love to stand and sing at a game.

 

[fatbadger]

I love it when I get to go to a ground with standing areas (I get plenty of opportunity being north of the border). All-seaters are rubbish.

Millions of football fans have safely stood on terraces - a couple of hundred have died (at Hillsborough and Ibrox). I do not, in any way, wish to trivialise those deaths (far from it), but they are not reason enough to ban standing.

Bring back terracing!!

 

[Zeitgeist]

I'm in two minds about this. It's clear there's a majority who would like a return to safe terracing. Nothing can ever be 100% safe and accident proof though. I don't agree with the statement: "this could never have happened at the Goldstone." Many a time I witnessed surges that saw young kids crushed agains't the gates at the botom. One occasion was particularly bad, can't remember the game. Didn't some lad end up with a broken arm? Although I always used to stand, I wouldn't be comfortable at the thought of my son standing on the terracing at some grounds.
It seems to be custom that Albion fans always stand at away games. Fine. My only gripe with that: Please stand at the back of the seats, so those that want to sit aren't forced to stand against their will. More than once when I've taken my son to an away game, he's hardly been able to see a thing because someone in front has insisted on their "right to stand". As a bad back sufferer, I prefer siting these days.

The obvious solution then?.....A return to some form of terracing, so people have a choice as to how they watch the game.

 

[Yorkie]

During the war hundreds of people died in a tube station which was used as a bomb shelter during the Blitz.

A bomb dropped nearby one night and people on the street panicked and ran inside causing people on the stairs still descending to trip and cause a blockage.

No one banned tube stations.

Nowadays no-one seems to accept that accidents happen. Someone or something is always to blame (yes I agree with that to a certain extent)

The result is a knee-jerk reaction that everybody and everything has to be ultrasafe in case someone is sued.

Life is a risk. Just by getting out of bed in the morning and going to work is a risk.

I don't like all this enforced safety.

 

[Gritt23]

I don't agree with the statement: "this could never have happened at the Goldstone." Many a time I witnessed surges that saw young kids crushed agains't the gates at the botom. One occasion was particularly bad, can't remember the game. Didn't some lad end up with a broken arm? Although I always used to stand, I wouldn't be comfortable at the thought of my son standing on the terracing at some grounds.

I was refering to the specific example of what happened at Hillsbrough whereby there was a mass of people flooding into the same section of terracing with no easy way of stopping them and redirecting them.

I was in a nasty one at the Goldstone, when we won promotion at home to Bristol Rovers. It was very very tight at the front nearing the final whistle, and on releasing us onto the pitch my mate Chris had to sit on the side of the pitch as he'd been struggling to breathe for the last few minutes.

I'm not saying incidents can't happen on terraces or couldn't of happened at the Goldstone, but not in the way it did in Hillsbrough or indeed on that scale.

 

[Mr Popkins]

ive seen one report that says in an emergency Seats can be more of a danger. as they are a hinderence when evacuating.

Queston-

in ALL SEATHER STADIA wht are they called STANDS?

 

[Gritt23]

I don't like all this enforced safety.

Nor do I like the blame culture that is developing. Whenever someone gets hurt, they look around for someone to blame.

I know of a case where a parent is threatening to sue the school after their boy was injured playing rugby. If that gets a payout, then it's a matter of time before all schools get stopped because the school can't afford to take the risk.

 

[Mr C]

I think there is some sort of campaign running to try and bring back terracing. The idea has been floated around recently, but this was a year or two ago now.

We should be given the choice of terracing or seating.

 

[Gritt23]

That's quite right Mr C.

http://www.safestanding.com/safe/index.php

 

[Yorkie]

Nor do I like the blame culture that is developing. Whenever someone gets hurt, they look around for someone to blame.

I know of a case where a parent is threatening to sue the school after their boy was injured playing rugby. If that gets a payout, then it's a matter of time before all schools get stopped because the school can't afford to take the risk.

I couldn't agree more.

Kids in Kirklees no longer have a sports day because the poor little darlings cannot be expected to deal with not winning.

 

[Mr Popkins]

I believe in the german league its mostly Terracing,

100,s of thousands turned out for the Nurenburg Rallys, they never sat down!

 

[Mr C]

I couldn't agree more.

Kids in Kirklees no longer have a sports day because the poor little darlings cannot be expected to deal with not winning.

This is all getting rather stupid. Whatever happened to:

1 - Taking responsibilty for your own actions and mistakes...and that accidents do happen.

and, 2 - Trying to nurture a culture of success.

 

[Mr C]

In Germany they have safe sections for standing where its all ticket, so you can't buy on the day.
For european games seats can be pulled from the stands,

You can see these at the bottom of the picture.
all it needs is sensible policing and organised stewards, and there would be few problems.

So how come it ain't happening then?

 

[Locky]

IMHO you can never be ready for the idiots at the back who surge forward and crush those at the front.
I had a few bad experiences at the Goldstone whilst standing in the north stand and being crushed to the point of not being able to get my breath.
Im not saying I am against terraces but I can not see a safe way of them being policed.

 

[zefarelly]

the only scary terrace moment I ever had is at the Goldstone after we beat Brizzle Rowvers . . . . .but it was just a case of moving quickly, and it wasnt forced, just my eagerness to touch the hallowed turf !