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[Football] Scotland vs England

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peterward

Members
Nov 11, 2009
8,863
First up, fair play to Scotland. If I was Scottish I'd be very proud of that team and performance. They played with pace, energy, commitment and to a structure and plan.

All I've ever wanted from my teams is that they try their best and have a go. It's not a lot to ask. It's what Scotland did. I'm dubious we did the former and we certainly didn't do the latter.

It's so frustrating watching a group of young, talented players with an obvious strength and weakness being wasted as we forsake our strength in a doomed attempt to shore up our weakness.

Be brave Gareth, have a ****ing go at teams.

Andy Murray!

[tweet]1406009552328441856[/tweet]
 


Jan 28, 2016
1,829
But in this day and age to get the job as the coach of the 4th ranked team in world football and with a hugely talented bunch of young English players, all playing in top leagues and for decent clubs, you would NEVER get the job with an unspectacular playing career or failed at Middlesbrough, and hit/miss for U21 as your crowing achievements.

He was seen as a compliant Yes man, who happened to already be in the England set up (just like many other failed managers like Aidy Boothroyd or Chris Powell seem to do).

Was Gareth Southgate the best man or most capably qualified coach to lead a top 10 ranked team in world football? of course not, its laughable.

Look at Mancini at Italy, a real quality top level manager, who knows what he's doing and has arguably a less talented squad, purring as a brilliant and organised team.

Southgate is a nice man, speaks well, is articulate, I dare say he's good at man management (as a calm nice guy), but he's done nothing to suggest he has the first clue tactically, nor any history of success in management.

ofc people will try and use the last WC, where we beat panama and Tunisa (just), lost to the only decent team in the group Belgium convincingly, then beat Colombia on pens, big underdogs and lower ranked Sweden (with set piece goals) before getting beat by the next decent team we face Croatia, then again getting beat by the other decent team we beat (Belgium 2nd time) in the 3/4th play off.

Winning the euros group against more minnows is all just papering over the cracks. Southgate doesnt have the beating of any of the top sides, we're wasting our time and this group of player talents in the hands of the FA yes man, who shouldn't have been appointed and did nothing to merit it.

If beating Panama, Tunisia, Montenegro or Kosovo is the limit of our ambition then fine, If we want to compete against the top teams we need a proven coach with tactical nous and that is not Gareth Southgate.

But many countries punching above their weight have managers we’ve never heard of, or with little experience. International football bares little comparison to club management. In fact many top level managers snub international football job offers and simply don’t want to do it. Slavin Bilic as an example little managerial experience did well at international level, but sacked twice at club level. The skill sets are different. Roberto Martinez wasn’t getting many top flight club offers, but doing very well with Belgium.

This is not a defence of Southgate, this is just that international football the club CV and experience just doesn’t necessarily apply, going back to the example of say Beckenbauer or Klinsmann, you just need to capture the mood of the group, make them believe in themselves and in a very short timeframes.

England’s problem continues to be build belief around a single star player that is often hyped to be much better than they actually are. Kane, Rooney, Beckham, Gazza, it’s just repeating the same mistakes. The one positive thing Southgate did last night was sub Kane off, all be it 20mins later than he should have done.
 

Randy McNob

Members
Jun 13, 2020
3,839
But in this day and age to get the job as the coach of the 4th ranked team in world football and with a hugely talented bunch of young English players, all playing in top leagues and for decent clubs, you would NEVER get the job with an unspectacular playing career or failed at Middlesbrough, and hit/miss for U21 as your crowing achievements.

He was seen as a compliant Yes man, who happened to already be in the England set up (just like many other failed managers like Aidy Boothroyd or Chris Powell seem to do).

Was Gareth Southgate the best man or most capably qualified coach to lead a top 10 ranked team in world football? of course not, its laughable.

Look at Mancini at Italy, a real quality top level manager, who knows what he's doing and has arguably a less talented squad, purring as a brilliant and organised team.

Southgate is a nice man, speaks well, is articulate, I dare say he's good at man management (as a calm nice guy), but he's done nothing to suggest he has the first clue tactically, nor any history of success in management.

So what happened when we did have a supposedly top renown coach? Erikson, Capello etc. They were a complete disaster. Southgate has done better than the pair of them despite them having the golden generation
 

peterward

Members
Nov 11, 2009
8,863
So what happened when we did have a supposedly top renown coach? Erikson, Capello etc. They were a complete disaster. Southgate has done better than the pair of them despite them having the golden generation

Southgate has done better?

I guess you're also taking a piss easy run with in WC 18 wins over Panama Tunisia Colombia on pens and Sweden as proof of that ridiculous statement? (we lost all 3 games against decent opposition - Belgium twice and Croatia)

Sven, for all his faults beat Argentina at the WC in normal time, he beat Germany in Munich 5-1. And Southgate has beaten which major teams in a competitive major tournament or qualifying?

thats it, none. So far, first good team we lose.

Capello being an old school disciplinarian was always the wrong choice of character.
 


Randy McNob

Members
Jun 13, 2020
3,839
Southgate has done better?

I guess you're also taking a piss easy run with in WC 18 wins over Panama Tunisia Colombia on pens and Sweden as proof of that ridiculous statement? (we lost all 3 games against decent opposition - Belgium twice and Croatia)

Sven, for all his faults beat Argentina at the WC in normal time, he beat Germany in Munich 5-1. And Southgate has beaten which major teams in a competitive major tournament or qualifying?

thats it, none. So far, first good team we lose.

Capello being an old school disciplinarian was always the wrong choice of character.

Yes I am. Cast your mind back to 2006, penalty shoot out against Portugal, Erikson brings on carragher specifically to take a penalty, he's probably never taken a penalty in his life, he skies it. That's poor management and the difference between success and failure is very fine lines especially at international tournaments. At least Southgate got through his shoot out, you make your own luck
 

Napper

Members
Jul 9, 2003
22,962
Sussex
Southgate has done better?

I guess you're also taking a piss easy run with in WC 18 wins over Panama Tunisia Colombia on pens and Sweden as proof of that ridiculous statement? (we lost all 3 games against decent opposition - Belgium twice and Croatia)

Sven, for all his faults beat Argentina at the WC in normal time, he beat Germany in Munich 5-1. And Southgate has beaten which major teams in a competitive major tournament or qualifying?

thats it, none. So far, first good team we lose.

Capello being an old school disciplinarian was always the wrong choice of character.

In 2016 we lost to Iceland in the euros . Southgate has improved us . Ok the wc run was easier but all games could lose . We got to the semis fact . That’s all that matters

We also got the the nations final

Currently unbeaten in this euros with more to come

Get behind the manager and lads
 

peterward

Members
Nov 11, 2009
8,863
Yes I am. Cast your mind back to 2006, penalty shoot out against Portugal, Erikson brings on carragher specifically to take a penalty, he's probably never taken a penalty in his life, he skies it. That's poor management and the difference between success and failure is very fine lines especially at international tournaments. At least Southgate got through his shoot out, you make your own luck

A penalty shoot out is a lottery, and usually the players to take a penalty choose themselves based on how confident they're feeling, not the manager.

Just as Henderson chose himself v Colombia and missed. So you genuinely think Carragher skying one pen in 2006 in a game we didnt lose in normal time, makes Sven worse, who beat Germany 5-1 in Munich, Argentina, a good Denmark 3-0 before a narrow loss to Brazil? Who did better against better opposition in euro 2004 and WC 2006 going out both times in the lottery of penalties and not once in normal time in either competition.

Southgate was spanked in all 3 games against decent opposition in WC 2018. fwiw I never liked Sven much but he was a better coach and tactical mind than Southgate.

Eddie Howe or Potter would both do a lot better than Southgate with this bunch of talented players imho
 

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Jul 21, 2003
19,139
Playing snooker
The one positive thing Southgate did last night was sub Kane off, all be it 20mins later than he should have done.

Kane shouldn’t have even started. He’s either injured or struggling with some other issue. Not content with selecting unfit players for the squad, Southgate’s now picking unfit players for the starting XI.
 


Reddleman

Members
May 17, 2017
1,161
Southgate has done better?

I guess you're also taking a piss easy run with in WC 18 wins over Panama Tunisia Colombia on pens and Sweden as proof of that ridiculous statement? (we lost all 3 games against decent opposition - Belgium twice and Croatia)

Sven, for all his faults beat Argentina at the WC in normal time, he beat Germany in Munich 5-1. And Southgate has beaten which major teams in a competitive major tournament or qualifying?

thats it, none. So far, first good team we lose.

Capello being an old school disciplinarian was always the wrong choice of character.


Might have been a piss easy run but he still got us to a WC semi final which no one other than Bobby Robson has managed on foreign soil, and guess that was a pretty easy run too.

Southgate also beat Spain in Spain in the nations league, he then beat Croatia only a few months after they had reached the World Cup final. Both competitive games.

Interesting how you class Croatia has decent opposition to suit your point about 2018 but will no doubt claim it doesn’t count as beating a decent side in this tournament.
 

sheebo

Members
Jul 13, 2003
25,272
I am genuinely interested in England’s no 1 fan [MENTION=457]sheebo[/MENTION] ‘s thoughts on tonight

I got so pissed I have no memory of the game at all :lol: Sounds like we were poor but that happens in most tournaments with even the best teams. Good not to lose - take the point and move on.
 

vagabond

Members
May 17, 2019
9,804
Brighton
How many chances have France missed?

How many chances did England Create?

Who are the current world champions?

It’s a fair comment though isn’t it?

There is no divine right to beat lower tiered teams. And I just pointed out it’s happened to France just now. A team with better players than us arguably.

I was pissed off last night so I get it. But ultimately we’ve played poor in both games yet we’re on 4 points, on verge of qualifying and that’s all that matters at this stage. Teams who win these things tend to start slow.

I will judge England’s performance at this Euros once our participation in it is over. It ain’t yet.
 

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