Scientists show there were 3 revolutions in popular music - punk wasn't one of them.

[daveinprague]

Im obviously biased, but I consider Bob Marleys contribution to reggae, and turning it into a world wide music is often overlooked. His image is even recognised in jungles, and deserts. In 1980 he was one of the biggest stars on the planet.

 

[Buzzer]

These days we have 'underground' music which means the silly chart you put up doesn't count for all music, just the silly pop stuff you've been fed.

Okay - now I'm really confused. For a start, the chart isn't mine - it's from the Economist magazine. Secondly, I expressed doubts about it in my first post. Thirdly and most importantly, you were the person who said that we now have X Factor and BGT to which I replied that there's lots of great music out there but you have to go looking for it. No-one's feeding me anything and I'm pretty sure there's a few people on here who can vouch for me on that score.

It's like you want to pick a fight with someone to prove your music credentials. If that's the case then you need a better opening salvo than saying that all we have now is X Factor and BGT and also please pick another person to have this argument with. I'd much rather debate this article about music revolutions than have a pissing contest on who's the most hipster musically.

 

[Megazone]

Okay - now I'm really confused. For a start, the chart isn't mine - it's from the Economist magazine. Secondly, I expressed doubts about it in my first post. Thirdly and most importantly, you were the person who said that we now have X Factor and BGT to which I replied that there's lots of great music out there but you have to go looking for it. No-one's feeding me anything and I'm pretty sure there's a few people on here who can vouch for me on that score.

It's like you want to pick a fight with someone to prove your music credentials. If that's the case then you need a better opening salvo than saying that all we have now is X Factor and BGT and also please pick another person to have this argument with. I'd much rather debate this article about music revolutions than have a pissing contest on who's the most hipster musically.

The trouble is that access to music and the formats have changed so if you expect to get spoon-fed then all you will get is what you describe. I've no sympathy for you.

What modern music are you referring to? It's pretty obvious we were more spoon fed back in the day than now.

Record shops and radio were your only option back in the day. More chance of a music revolution these days considering the opportunities for bedroom artists.

People are listening to home made music these days. That's the major difference. We're in no set genre.

 

[W.C.]

I listen to everything from The Taste (Rory Gallagher) to Joris Voorn.

By the sounds of things, you seem slightly out of touch and totally unaware of modern music. You have my sympathy.

Have you heard of Logic or Appleton? Very revolutionary in relation to modern music.

What's Appleton?

 

[AlbionPics&SouthCoastTwit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gChOifUJZMc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MYM9OU6cuE




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZRyXAOc3s




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UGXd41G6Ls



Road trip music!

 

[Megazone]

What's Appleton?

Ableton. (my error)

 

[Buzzer]

What modern music are you referring to? It's pretty obvious we were more spoon fed back in the day than now.

Record shops and radio were your only option.

Fanzines, gigs, word of mouth, NME, Melody Maker, The Tube and Old Grey Whistle Test, more gigs...those radio stations and record shops weren't the only options.

At the risk of bigging up my music blog, here's a link: http://www.burrowsmusic.com/ hopefully it might shine some light onto what I listen to.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Pete Stanley of St Etienne fame wrote a book about the history of pop and his thesis was that at certain times in chart history the underground briefly becomes aligned with popular music taste. This kind of tallies with 80s when various strands of the underground; punk, new wave, 2 tone/ska, new romantic, became hugely popular. The 90s is roughly equivalent of the house and rave scene doing something similar, see for example the growth of Ministry of Justice andCream from individual nights to international brands.0

 

[Stato]

On a serious note, you might be onto something here. Maybe the music scene had different time-lags from underground to mainstream in the early 60s to the early 80s and as you say, the real revolution for the 80s started a few years earlier but just took longer to be reflected in the chart music.

The interesting thing for me is I can see the big change with Beat bands and the Brit invasion in the 60s, I can see the change in the late 70s/early 80s with punk and new wave (we'll agree to disagree with the scientists on the timing) but I'm struggling to see a massive change in the early 90s. Maybe because I'm looking at it through UK-centric eyes but the rave scene for us was a game changer and that was late 80s. Britpop was another but that was mid-90s.

I think that the piece I heard made reference to the early nineties spike being to do with the popularity of hip hop. At this point Gansta Rap started to take over the US charts, but obviously the seeds had already been sown with people like Bambata a decade and half earlier and the likes of Run DMC, Public Enemy and De La Soul had already made an impact over here in the late eighties. You are right that the chart generally takes time to catch up with the underground, but I think their fundamental mistake is in their choice to look for revolution. Had they been able to analyse any of the things they are calling revolution they would have quickly found that the styles evolved from something else not represented in their data sample. They should be talking about tipping points not revolutions.

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

Kicked off with 'Brotherhood of Man' followed by 'Steps' and then 'The Spice Girls'. Looks a good hypothesis to me.....

TNBA

TTF

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

'The naked science' podcast has done a piece on this, interviewing the guy who produced the results.

I've got a couple of issues with it, the main one being they've only looked at chord structure and timbre. It is quite interesting though.

 

[boik]

I think you're all missing something in the small print....although this was done by English bods, they only analysed the U.S. Singles Chart, and we all know how severely limited that is!

 

[Nitram]

I sort of see what they are saying in identifying sea change e.g. early British Invasion of early sixties, new wave 80's and later rap. However it ignores the bigger influences, being the emergence of rock from 50's when Elvis et al changed music from the crooners style, and the 1967 to 1973 era of Hendrix, Floyd, Sabbath, Led Zep, Stooges, Velvet Undergound and Bowie to name but a few.

Edit. To add to the 1967 to 1973 argument for musical influence it's interesting to see how many of the top albums feature in the top 20 of the Rolling Stone list.
http://www.listchallenges.com/rolling-stones-top-100-albums

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What's Appleton?

They were in All Saints I think

 

[Questions]

When I was younger I was influenced by having a brother ten years older than me who when I was about 12 would be playing Dylan, Floyd, Cohen and people of that ilk. That did it for me. I am a dinosaur when comes to music and although I want to hear some good new stuff I am either disappointed or just lazy really in going looking for it. In fact only Buzzer has got my juices going a couple of times on NSC with some late nights recommendations .
If you went from people like Pat Boone to Presley that must have been something at the time and although I sought of resent Elvis in some ways because of the blocking of so much black music during that R & R time I still think it must be included as a breakthrough time. Punk did nothing for me as I was into the Velvets and the like and it was only retrospectively that they were given any credit for the introduction of that sound. It still disspoints me that Mckaren was manager of The New York Dolls. Couldn't stand him.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Punk wasn't a musical revolution thinking about it, it was always one of attitude - anybody can do it. With that it broke down a stale and conservative music scene and opened up the oppotunities for post punk/new wave/new romantic which would provide musical change.

 

[Buzzer]

When I was younger I was influenced by having a brother ten years older than me who when I was about 12 would be playing Dylan, Floyd, Cohen and people of that ilk. That did it for me. I am a dinosaur when comes to music and although I want to hear some good new stuff I am either disappointed or just lazy really in going looking for it. In fact only Buzzer has got my juices going a couple of times on NSC with some late nights recommendations .
If you went from people like Pat Boone to Presley that must have been something at the time and although I sought of resent Elvis in some ways because of the blocking of so much black music during that R & R time I still think it must be included as a breakthrough time. Punk did nothing for me as I was into the Velvets and the like and it was only retrospectively that they were given any credit for the introduction of that sound. It still disspoints me that Mckaren was manager of The New York Dolls. Couldn't stand him.

Seriously I'm flattered but definitely don't deserve the praise.

Edit - and agree about Maclaren. An opportunist and business man.

 

[Buzzer]

Punk wasn't a musical revolution thinking about it, it was always one of attitude - anybody can do it. With that it broke down a stale and conservative music scene and opened up the oppotunities for post punk/new wave/new romantic which would provide musical change.

Best post. Nail on head.