[News] School strikes

[Berty23]

On your first sentence, I heard a teacher say that very thing on LBC last week. In my own family too - my sister in law is a primary school teacher, and she made that argument over Christmas.

I'm not saying it is a widespread viewpoint, but I HAVE heard it a few times and it has grated with me.

I understand you're vested in this, and I'm genuinely not trying to wind anyone up. It's just a different viewpoint I'm putting across - hopefully civilly.

Fair enough. But anyone who claims that they are the only occupation needs to be called out.

I am sure I read the department for educations own research showed teachers will on average work 50 hour weeks. If that is correct then teachers are contracted to work 1265 hours a year and 50 hours x 39 is 1950. So that is 685 hours unpaid overtime.

A teacher’s starting salary is 28k. So if they work the average hours they are on £14.35. The national living wage is just under ten quid and hour. So earning 4 quid more than the living wage. 3 years at uni. All that debt. Is it any wonder they find it hard to recruit?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I just took my son out of the school and home-schooled instead of trying to fight it. They were hiding reports of bullying so it looked like there wasn't a problem. Bunch of crooks.

Again, that's terrible. I wish you well with the home schooling. I have a feeling that parents collude with the malpractice with the notion that if things are kept under wraps and indeed underperforming kids are excluded then this may make the school look better and be given more HMG money. Lest we never forget, some Tories are opposed to state funded enterprises, including schools, so....

 

[virtual22]

I am sure I read the department for educations own research showed teachers will on average work 50 hour weeks. If that is correct then teachers are contracted to work 1265 hours a year and 50 hours x 39 is 1950. So that is 685 hours unpaid overtime.

You have taken out the circa 13 weeks holiday there where as we all know they work in their holidays as well so actually it's even worse than this, even if they just do a few hours week during their "time off". We have all heard stories of teachers bringing in breakfasts for pupils as they know they are not getting fed at home and other such stories. If people really believe these front line workers are not deserving a decent wage and at least a cost of living payrise I think we have wider issues. It's literally soul destroying living in the UK at the moment.

 

[Berty23]

You have taken out the circa 13 weeks holiday there where as we all know they work in their holidays as well so actually it's even worse than this, even if they just do a few hours week during their "time off". We have all heard stories of teachers bringing in breakfasts for pupils as they know they are not getting fed at home and other such stories. If people really believe these front line workers are not deserving a decent wage and at least a cost of living payrise I think we have wider issues. It's literally soul destroying living in the UK at the moment.

Yes. That is correct. I was just using data the dfe make available!

 

[rippleman]

It used to be the case that one of the initial steps of any industrial dispute was to "work to rule". You worked your contracted hours only. You only did the role you were contracted to do. No additional extra curricular duties. No overtime. I am not a fan of the "odd day here, odd day there" method of striking. The barristers came out and stayed out and got their 15% pay rise very swiftly.

Teachers adopting the "odd day here" approach should also be working to rule. It is pointless striking one day if you are going to work 20 hours the next day to "catch up".

The way the schools are handling strike days appears to be that most years classes are cancelled but they are still letting a year or two go to school. This will inevitably mean that teachers at some schools will be crossing picket lines. And there is never a reason or excuse to cross a picket line.

 

[Comrade Sam]

I encourage anyone that supports the public sector strikes to put a poster in the window, it really lifts moral and if possible try to join a local demo or Pickett line - before work or in your lunch break. Everyone is always welcome (unless they're a scab obviously).

 

[Audax]

Today there are figures showing there are more households who receive more net government spending than they put into the chicken on the kitchen table (bonus point on the chicken reference)
That is not sustainable

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Believe this was a headline item for a particular dirty rag of a newspaper that quite neatly ignore the fact that the majority of those households are pensioners who are retired. That's more a story about the stresses that an aging population are having on the system than what that poop-stirring rag want the populace to believe.

 

[Berty23]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Believe this was a headline item for a particular dirty rag of a newspaper that quite neatly ignore the fact that the majority of those households are pensioners who are retired. That's more a story about the stresses that an aging population are having on the system than what that poop-stirring rag want the populace to believe.

It was a very bold shout for the Mail to slate the vast majority of its readers though! The amazing thing is that most of them would not have realised it meant them!

 

[beorhthelm]

It used to be the case that one of the initial steps of any industrial dispute was to "work to rule". You worked your contracted hours only. You only did the role you were contracted to do. No additional extra curricular duties. No overtime. I am not a fan of the "odd day here, odd day there" method of striking. The barristers came out and stayed out and got their 15% pay rise very swiftly.

Teachers adopting the "odd day here" approach should also be working to rule. It is pointless striking one day if you are going to work 20 hours the next day to "catch up".

The way the schools are handling strike days appears to be that most years classes are cancelled but they are still letting a year or two go to school. This will inevitably mean that teachers at some schools will be crossing picket lines. And there is never a reason or excuse to cross a picket line.

often look at the results find action other than strikes gets higher vote, but they go with the strike anyway. also less than half voted in favour, the majority didnt vote or voted against. one union met the 50% turnout to be valid, the other didn't.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I clearly caused a bit of a stir with my original post on this thread, so I may as well go in for round 2. I was listening to a debate on the radio about this topic this morning and one of the callers was a teacher from Scotland, who was speaking from the picket line. One of her main gripes was that teachers do a lot of 'unseen' hours, i.e. they come in before school starts to prep, stay later than the official school day and often end up bringing work home with them too. All of those points are absolutely fair in my book - no disputing AT ALL that teachers go above and beyond.

However, and here's the bit I'll probably get flamed for, there are COUNTLESS other jobs where the same is true, i.e. people work well beyond their contracted hours, often bringing work home with them, checking emails in the evening etc. I know it shouldn't be a race to the bottom, but there are a lot of teachers who I've seen/heard being interviewed who give the opinion that their profession is the only one with these added pressures and burdens. That point alone doesn't do wonders for the PR of what they're doing - in my view, anyway.

True but I think it’s more an argument against the “they start at 9 and are home by 3” brigade. That’s how I see it anyway.

That said, it’s really not good for anyone to work in the manner you portray above.

 

[Comrade Sam]

often look at the results find action other than strikes gets higher vote, but they go with the strike anyway. also less than half voted in favour, the majority didnt vote or voted against. one union met the 50% turnout to be valid, the other didn't.

Have you ever tried to conduct a ballot in a school. Teachers are both too busy and often too demoralised to vote (There's also a postal strike). Also why would those who want to strike bother voting and not those opposed. The latest ballot results have been quite remarkable, votes in the past often show a majority taking part opposing strike action - 90% in favour of strike action is a massive reflection of the mood of Teachers. If MPs or local Councillors had to receive a majority of those eligible to vote choosing one candidate we'd have very few elected officials.

 

[chickens]

often look at the results find action other than strikes gets higher vote, but they go with the strike anyway. also less than half voted in favour, the majority didnt vote or voted against. one union met the 50% turnout to be valid, the other didn't.

I don’t think it’s a surprise to you that people are fed up. People take a very long time to come en-masse to the decision to take strike action, it costs them personally. Therefore the alternative has to be worse.

The reasons for striking absolutely include pay and conditions, but these are not selfish actions. As teachers watch support and resources being stripped away, mainly due to the government’s political decision that any staff pay rise had to come from existing school budgets (e.g. if we give you a pay rise we can no longer afford to update the textbooks, or worse, goodbye teaching assistant) teachers are watching the children in their care being failed.

This isn’t getting resolved without an increase in staff pay and an improvement in working conditions, which is going to mean a higher cost to the taxpayer. That doesn’t sit well with some, but it is inevitable.

The Conservative Party cannot rely on being the tax cut party for ever, it needs to genuinely offer something different, because there’s only so much degradation of public services that is politically acceptable even to their own voters. It was getting away with offering below inflation pay rises to the public sector while inflation sat under 2%, but the basic costs that are unavoidable (energy, transport, rent and food) have all risen substantially and nothing short of a corresponding rise in salary will make it right. That needs to happen without losing the teaching assistants and still replacing the textbooks.

This Conservative Party has proven itself incompetent at running public services, it hasn’t budgeted adequately, and while the clamour from within its local Conservative Clubs may still be “moar tax cuts” Rishi can see what’s ahead and knows that financial markets won’t be fooled even if Conservative voters can be.

 

[BN41Albion]

I don’t think it’s a surprise to you that people are fed up. People take a very long time to come en-masse to the decision to take strike action, it costs them personally. Therefore the alternative has to be worse.

The reasons for striking absolutely include pay and conditions, but these are not selfish actions. As teachers watch support and resources being stripped away, mainly due to the government’s political decision that any staff pay rise had to come from existing school budgets (e.g. if we give you a pay rise we can no longer afford to update the textbooks, or worse, goodbye teaching assistant) teachers are watching the children in their care being failed.

This isn’t getting resolved without an increase in staff pay and an improvement in working conditions, which is going to mean a higher cost to the taxpayer. That doesn’t sit well with some, but it is inevitable.

The Conservative Party cannot rely on being the tax cut party for ever, it needs to genuinely offer something different, because there’s only so much degradation of public services that is politically acceptable even to their own voters. It was getting away with offering below inflation pay rises to the public sector while inflation sat under 2%, but the basic costs that are unavoidable (energy, transport, rent and food) have all risen substantially and nothing short of a corresponding rise in salary will make it right. That needs to happen without losing the teaching assistants and still replacing the textbooks.

This Conservative Party has proven itself incompetent at running public services, it hasn’t budgeted adequately, and while the clamour from within its local Conservative Clubs may still be “moar tax cuts” Rishi can see what’s ahead and knows that financial markets won’t be fooled even if Conservative voters can be.

All this, and to add: Ofsted and the Governement are still expecting results, from Year 2 and Year 6 SATs (which no teacher I know of thinks children should sit considering the pressure the children are put under to achieve for absolutely nothing - they are to assess the school, not the children) up to further education, to improve.

 

[portlock seagull]

It used to be the case that one of the initial steps of any industrial dispute was to "work to rule". You worked your contracted hours only. You only did the role you were contracted to do. No additional extra curricular duties. No overtime. I am not a fan of the "odd day here, odd day there" method of striking. The barristers came out and stayed out and got their 15% pay rise very swiftly.

Teachers adopting the "odd day here" approach should also be working to rule. It is pointless striking one day if you are going to work 20 hours the next day to "catch up".

The way the schools are handling strike days appears to be that most years classes are cancelled but they are still letting a year or two go to school. This will inevitably mean that teachers at some schools will be crossing picket lines. And there is never a reason or excuse to cross a picket line.

And there is never a reason or excuse to cross a picket line.

There is, if you believe in democracy?

 

[amexer]

There is, if you believe in democracy?

Surely there is a case for crossing a picket line if you happen not to believe in striking and maybe not a member of union

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Surely there is a case for crossing a picket line if you happen not to believe in striking and maybe not a member of union

…and seriously has literally no morals and couldn’t give a flying f*** about anyone but themselves

 

[beorhthelm]

…and seriously has literally no morals and couldn’t give a flying f*** about anyone but themselves

great illustration of industrial action. half the teachers didnt vote for action, but insult them because they choose other priorities.

 

[portlock seagull]

Surely there is a case for crossing a picket line if you happen not to believe in striking and maybe not a member of union

Precisely. Each to their own, naive to expect everyone sees world same way anyhow. Which is why dictatorships exist!

 

[Brian Fantana]

For my daughter's primary school, we've just had a letter from the head teacher to say that none of the teaching staff are going on strike for the first scheduled day on Feb 1st.

 

[Hamilton]

The Daily Hate judging the mood of the country. Poor government has only had 10 years to get round the table. Give them time for goodness sake! Remember it’s people like teachers, nurses and railway station staff that are ruining this country, NOT hedge fund managers!