Russia v USA in running

[BrickTamland]

Sometimes to move on you need to keep dictators in place as they bring stability to the country...getting rid of Assad like the west want would be a bad bad thing....Putin knows what the west don't.

I agree in the short term, 100%. However Assad doesn't have a brilliant track record either. Whilst US backed regimes have only ever been a disaster in the Middle East they will try to remove Assad at some time or other, hopefully when Isis are but a horrible memory. I also would hope (although highly doubt) that America might have learnt it's lesson and let any political change within Syria come from within rather than with help by the CIA.

 

[StonehamPark]

Stream?

 

[Elvis]

d.....fence!!!

 

[sir albion]

I agree in the short term, 100%. However Assad doesn't have a brilliant track record either. Whilst US backed regimes have only ever been a disaster in the Middle East they will try to remove Assad at some time or other, hopefully when Isis are but a horrible memory. I also would hope (although highly doubt) that America might have learnt it's lesson and let any political change within Syria come from within rather than with help by the CIA.

One step at a time....Must back Assad and the Russians and focus on the other issues after.
If we had left the Assad types alone to start with we wouldn't be on this hideous mess...Times are changing on planet earth and it's time for some brains when dealing with these tricky situations.
Russia will get the backing from China and others...time the west stepped aside for once instead of torpedoing into country's with no plan B.
If the Russians make progress in which I'm sure they will...Then the USA will be very very annoyed and their huge ego will be tarnished forever.
Putin is no angel,but he has more brains than Cameron and Obama put together....watch this space

 

[el punal]

Where's Blatter in all of this?

 

[symyjym]

ISIS can't be defeated without Assad having real control of Syria (this isn't necessarily supporting Assad as he's obviously a despot) as there needs to be unity in the fight as lets be honest as bad as Assad is he isn't as bad as Isis. Allow Assad support, even if the 'west' doesn't directly provide it they need to stop supporting the rebels against Assad and concentrate them against the real enemy and allow Russia to support (both militarily and financially) Assad. If this mess ever gets sorted transitioning out Assad via political and economic sanctions in the long run must be preferable to an Isis held Damascus.

Yep, for Assad to go it wouldn't change the state institutions and if anything it would end up like Iraq if it was dismantled overnight. The only way Syria can go through transition is to keep him in place for now and reform the country later.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There is a theory about this being about Russia trying to make a potential gas pipeline from Qatar to Europe much more difficult - Assad will basically block it, meaning it would have to go through Iraq. Meanwhile a new pipeline from Russia becomes much more tempting.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

HOWEVER, my belief is that this is a pretence by the Russians to exert pressure on Europe. Putin is a power mad war mongering maniac who detests the west. He is strategically placing Russian forces in areas where they can launch a Europe wide attack in the event he needs to.

And the American administration are power mad war mongering maniacs who detest anyone who might harm their national interest even in the slightest. There is so, so much proof and history of underhand tactics used by the US government to destabilize dozens of countries since the 50s. America have over 1,000 military bases all over the world and so they can launch an attack on any country in the event they need to. Just because we've grown up hearing the media say America is a UK ally and we're fighting for the common good, it doesn't make it true. I believe the world would be a much more peaceful place in 2015 if the US had adopted a similar foreign policy to Germany in the last half century.

Russia has started bombing in Syria and the US condemn it immediately, while doing the exact same thing, while also failing to condemn the Turkish bombing of the PPK, one group who could actually help us get out of this mess. This is getting closer and closer to another Vietnam, but this time the focus is on 'eradicating extreme Islam' rather than 'eradicate communism'. The spin and propaganda has already started on both sides, while no doubt the rich arms dealers all over the world are rubbing their hands in glee, along with the higher-ups in the American administration who are on their payroll.

Europe is going to take a major hit with refugees and other economic migrants that can slip through too. It may cause more social unrest as countries such as Germany, Poland, Sweden, Austria and Italy as more people fight for low paying jobs. Not to mention countries like Jordan who are struggling to take 10% of their population in refugees. Countries aren't set up to deal with a 10% increase in population in two years. Finally you can't forget the Syrian people who are the ones really affected by this mess. They aren't third world 'nothing to lose' people choosing to migrate. A lot of them are highly educated people with families, high skilled jobs and their whole life in Syria. They're now having to move to places where they will be treated with contempt while leaving behind everything they've worked their whole lives to get. It's a shitty situation but we shouldn't be so quick to throw accusations at Russia just because it's the 'normal thing to do'.

 

[symyjym]

Putin Attacks US ‘Information Warfare':

Putin: Claims Russian jets killed civilians in Syria emerged before airstrikes started

http://www.rt.com/news/317188-putin-civilian-casualties-syria/

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Putin Attacks US ‘Information Warfare':

Putin: Claims Russian jets killed civilians in Syria emerged before airstrikes started

http://www.rt.com/news/317188-putin-civilian-casualties-syria/

Priceless

'Putin Today' critices Information Warfare...

 

[vegster]

I think Putin has made a mistake by wading in with direct military support, It will be interesting to see how long it is before there is a suicide attack on the Russian bases, I wonder how Putin's media will explain that to the ordinary Russians.

 

[Honky Tonx]

http://piranhas4.co.uk/lyrics c.htm

 

[WhingForPresident]

Is this POTG?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

A wise move is probably for the US etc. to stand down a bit and let Putin be sucked into another Afganistan.

 

[jameswestport]

Its all propaganda

 

[Questions]

Its all propaganda

Is that like when a cockney has a real good look at the situation.

 

[carlzeiss]

Its all propaganda

we're living wonderful lives .

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Unfortunately when it comes to this region, Putin has generally got things right. He was against the Iraq war & was proved correct. He warned about supplying arms to the moderate rebels, and was right. He warned against taking out Assad, and has been proven right. Doesn't suit the Western narrative, but Russia has generally got things right here

 

[symyjym]

A wise move is probably for the US etc. to stand down a bit and let Putin be sucked into another Afganistan.

Unfortunately the US, Saudi's and the Turks have been supplying the rebel groups and Al Nusra with arms to bomb Aleppo and Damascus. Then when Assad targets the areas where these attacks are launched from, everyone is up in arms about the civilians getting caught up in it. Then when you consider that the Saudi and Turks get most of their weapons from the US in the first place and Al Nusra is an affiliate of al Qaeda you can see where the policy is muddled.

Assad isn't solely to blame for the destruction of Syria, the US, Saudi and Turkey have all played a massive part in the cycle of death themselves. If Assad falls the Alawites will get slaughtered so he has a duty to protect his people. He cannot just pack his bags, flee and leave them to die. If the rebels and Al Nusra take over Damascus, ISIL will move in and take it from them anyway. At the moment ISIL are just waiting for Assad and the rebels to destroy each other so they can just walk in to power.

It was only about 10 days ago that Syrians rebels bombed the Russian Embassy in Syria, probably with US supplied weapons. So clearly they have validated themselves as a target for Russia.

Every Syrian who has fled to the west coast of Syria considers Russia as a savior. If Russia can force the rebels and Al Nusra to lay down their arms and leave, the sooner one can develop a cohesive strategy to deal with the biggest threat in the world today, ISIL.