[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Commander]

Excellent read. I was interested in the fact that it appears they have not made many air sorties because they are unable to prevent the Ukraine air defence systems from being effective. This made me wonder why Zelensky keeps urging NATO to provide a no fly zone which would be at odds with this. Could it be that Ukraine and NATO have decided that they actually do want Russia to take to the air more so they can shoot them down so it's a sort of double bluff?[/QUOTE]

It's strange that you mentioned that. It had also occurred to me as well, but from a different angle.

I have been struck by the number of times that Zelensky has called for a no fly zone. I'm left wondering if he and NATO have an agreement that he does this periodically, (perhaps it is code for 'send us more weapons') so that NATO can repeat its public policy to not participate militarily, while quietly doing the opposite? A proportion of the weaponry of NATO members will already be at or near the Ukraine border.

When Joe Biden or Ben Wallace announce an additional supply of weapons, perhaps they are already in place. I believe it's called logistics.

That's my conspiracy theory for today. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

It also gives him a way out- he can agree with Russia they won't join NATO as NATO wouldn't protect the skies for them anyway.

 

[origigull]

Professor Michael Clarke, former director of Royal United Services Institute, on Radio 4 Today's Programme, this morning from 1hr 14 minutes in.

Interesting what he says about some of the weapons Ukraine has at its disposal and how some would take weeks of NATO training to use, which he thinks must have already taken place.

Russia were posturing on the borders of Ukraine for weeks before they invaded and it was said that NATO advisers were in Ukraine the last couple of months prior to the start of the war and left just a day or so before February 24th.

 

[origigull]

[A proportion of the weaponry of NATO members will already be at or near the Ukraine border.

When Joe Biden or Ben Wallace announce an additional supply of weapons, perhaps they are already in place. I believe it's called logistics.

That's my conspiracy theory for today. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

When NATO announce additional sums of money to help Ukraine with defensive weapons you can be sure they are already there in the field ready to be used.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Excellent read. I was interested in the fact that it appears they have not made many air sorties because they are unable to prevent the Ukraine air defence systems from being effective. This made me wonder why Zelensky keeps urging NATO to provide a no fly zone which would be at odds with this. Could it be that Ukraine and NATO have decided that they actually do want Russia to take to the air more so they can shoot them down so it's a sort of double bluff?[/QUOTE]

It's strange that you mentioned that. It had also occurred to me as well, but from a different angle.

I have been struck by the number of times that Zelensky has called for a no fly zone. I'm left wondering if he and NATO have an agreement that he does this periodically, (perhaps it is code for 'send us more weapons') so that NATO can repeat its public policy to not participate militarily, while quietly doing the opposite? A proportion of the weaponry of NATO members will already be at or near the Ukraine border.

When Joe Biden or Ben Wallace announce an additional supply of weapons, perhaps they are already in place. I believe it's called logistics.

That's my conspiracy theory for today. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

Yes totally agree. He says it at every opportunity and I believe it's for Putin's ears. It allows the countries that are chucking arms at him to officially distance themselves from direct involvement.

He often uses terms such as blood is on your hands for not giving me extra help etc. While sending a secret message of thanks for the **** off drones.

Anyone who doesn't believe we have guys on the ground in Ukraine are as deluded as Russian press spokesperson.

The only danger I see is the press keep rolling out ex-military who appear very happy to give out information which could compromise certain situations.

 

[rippleman]

Burger King has now joined M&S in refusing to close their retail outlets in Russia citing "legal complexities".

You all know what to do. Boycott the ******** until they do the right thing.

 

[Springal]

Burger King has now joined M&S in refusing to close their retail outlets in Russia citing "legal complexities".

You all know what to do. Boycott the ******** until they do the right thing.

Yep - but don't you dare moan when M&S goes under and 80,000 are without jobs.

Although M&S did say this:

'LONDON, March 3 (Reuters) - British food and clothing retailer Marks & Spencer (MKS.L) has suspended shipments to its Turkish franchisee's Russian business following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it said on Thursday.'

So what is the issue? If the stores are franchised are still open what can anyone do? Take them to court in Russia? So if supply is suspended (unless it restarted, but unlikely as no one will take stuff into Russia at the moment) they'll run out and have to shut eventually

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Professor Michael Clarke, former director of Royal United Services Institute, on Radio 4 Today's Programme, this morning from 1hr 14 minutes in.

Interesting what he says about some of the weapons Ukraine has at its disposal and how some would take weeks of NATO training to use, which he thinks must have already taken place.

So how long has there been NATO involvement in Ukraine I wonder?

No need to wonder.

NATO have been training the Ukrainian military since the first invasion in 2014.

That is common knowledge, countless news reports over the 8 years.

It looks like thankfully they've done a great job.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

So what is the issue? If the stores are franchised are still open what can anyone do? Take them to court in Russia?

Putin got his wealth as a result of a kidnapping preventing another Chinese firm bidding.

Extortion and threats of violence etc are not off the cards.

 

[Eric the meek]

Professor Michael Clarke, former director of Royal United Services Institute, on Radio 4 Today's Programme, this morning from 1hr 14 minutes in.

Interesting what he says about some of the weapons Ukraine has at its disposal and how some would take weeks of NATO training to use, which he thinks must have already taken place.

So how long has there been NATO involvement in Ukraine I wonder?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps the answer to your question lies in the Admiral Sir Tony Radakin interview with Sophie Raworth, over a week ago.

He said that we have known of Putin's intention to invade for months.

 

[beorhthelm]

Burger King has now joined M&S in refusing to close their retail outlets in Russia citing "legal complexities".

You all know what to do. Boycott the ******** until they do the right thing.

they're run as franchises. the parent can (has a i've read) suspend branded goods shipping. they cant stop them opening and serving food or getting local printers to make knock off packaging.

 

[1066familyman]

No need to wonder.

NATO have been training the Ukrainian military since the first invasion in 2014.

That is common knowledge, countless news reports over the 8 years.

It looks like thankfully they've done a great job.

Which then begs the next question.

How long were NATO active in Ukraine before the 2014 invasion?

See where this is going?

All a bit chicken and egg.

 

[Triggaaar]

Which then begs the next question.

How long were NATO active in Ukraine before the 2014 invasion?

See where this is going?

All a bit chicken and egg.

Seriously - you're suggesting that Russia have invaded Ukraine because of NATO? Nonsense. Putin saw Crimea as part of Russia, and he was going to take it, unless stopped. Putin doesn't recognise Ukraine as a country at all, and would take that too if he could. Putin had no fears that Ukraine or anyone else was going to invade Russia.

 

[Triggaaar]

Meanwhile there's a disturbing mass celebration in Moscow of the annexation of Crimea. So much for this being Putin's war, with the people of Russia bystanders.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Which then begs the next question.

How long were NATO active in Ukraine before the 2014 invasion?

See where this is going?

All a bit chicken and egg.

Does it beg any question ?

I have no idea either way if we were training the Ukrainian military before 2014.

I hope not because the Ukrainian army was an absolute mess in those days which would mean our training was abysmal.

I'm also at the same time not fussed at all about whether we were, nor can be bothered to research such an academic point.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Meanwhile there's a disturbing mass celebration in Moscow of the annexation of Crimea. So much for this being Putin's war, with the people of Russia bystanders.

Yes. I was "looking forward" to seeing all the "Z" swastikas on the photos.

Let's be fair though - some of them will be state employees encouraged to go. And no one will want to lose their job right now in Russia.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Which then begs the next question.

How long were NATO active in Ukraine before the 2014 invasion?

See where this is going?

All a bit chicken and egg.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation who can invite whoever they like to come to their country and train them. They don't need permission from their very large neighbours.
Why is Russia so spooked about a small neighbour talking to a defensive alliance? It is no threat to them, unless, of course, they had designs on some of that land.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Professor Michael Clarke, former director of Royal United Services Institute, on Radio 4 Today's Programme, this morning from 1hr 14 minutes in.

Interesting what he says about some of the weapons Ukraine has at its disposal and how some would take weeks of NATO training to use, which he thinks must have already taken place.

Google Operation Obital. We've been out there training then since 2014.

 

[Eric the meek]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation who can invite whoever they like to come to their country and train them. They don't need permission from their very large neighbours.
Why is Russia so spooked about a small neighbour talking to a defensive alliance? It is no threat to them, unless, of course, they had designs on some of that land.

Exactly. It is incomprehensible why some on here have such a problem with this fundamental point.

Russia's designs were on all the land in Ukraine. It was confirmed when Putin said that Ukraine has no right to exist.

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://podfollow.com/gone-medieval/episode/723998991c090660987d98754177b93173724af3/view

This is worth listening to.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Meanwhile there's a disturbing mass celebration in Moscow of the annexation of Crimea. So much for this being Putin's war, with the people of Russia bystanders.

Yes. I was "looking forward" to seeing all the "Z" swastikas on the photos.

Let's be fair though - some of them will be state employees encouraged to go. And no one will want to lose their job right now in Russia.

By the way, this event has "False Flag Target" written all over it.

We shall see.