[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[banjo]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0NBw9LohMKQ

 

[beorhthelm]

This is a show of force and testing how far it can push the Americans and their appetite for conflict.
the Ukraine is probably not the real aim or target.

thats just it, US have not even suggested they run in to aid Ukraine, just be very very angry and cut off thier banks. Europe will do sweet fa and isnt even in support of the bank block (cant, need their gas for a start). seems the aim, other than winding up the west, is to actually invade and occupy Ukraine.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Putin v Boris and Biden? what could go wrong.

Still the least worse combo considering the alternatives ..

Putin v Trump and Boris

Putin and Corbyn v Trump/Biden

[emoji6]


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[doogie004]

Wish they would hurry up and decide weather going to blow the world up or not we got season ticket renewals comming up soon dont want to waste money


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[GREASED WEASEL]

Putin doesn't want all of the Ukraine

Donetsk is basically already a Russian city

3 out of 4 people there speak Russian

A bit like the Albanians in Kosovo

 

[Baker lite]

Still the least worse combo considering the alternatives ..

Putin v Trump and Boris

Putin and Corbyn v Trump/Biden

[emoji6]


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Still makes me shudder when I think what might have been..

 

[WATFORD zero]

Still the least worse combo considering the alternatives ..

Putin v Trump and Boris

Putin and Corbyn v Trump/Biden

[emoji6]

Still makes me shudder when I think what might have been..

So this is where the pair of you hang out these days

 

[vegster]

So this is where the pair of you hang out these days

View attachment 144151

Oh dear WZ, you have acknowledged his existence again... schoolboy error, expect more ************ based responses.

 

[peterward]

It worked with the West-backed "revolution" in 2014 and most Westerners believed it was entirely natural and organic. Putin doing the exact same thing would similarly probably trick a lot of people in Russia/pro-Russians.

Clueless muppet, parroting the bollox you watch on RT as you smoke the funny stuff.

Ive a ukrainian wife, my mother in law lives 10km from the front line in the most eastern suburb of Mariupol. She is a friend (having taught her English) to the wife of the deputy head of the SBU, and also friends with a former deputy (MP) previously in the Verkhvona Rada.
I know the country and its politics inside and out. Ive seen the devastation first hand of the Russian invasion of Donbass where over 15000 have been killed. Ive been many times through the once beautiful airport in Donetsk, now a ruin because of one man.

It was 100% a natural and organic revolution against a devastatingly corrupt Russian puppet Yanukovych, he agreed to move towards the EU which was still the majority opinion in the divided country, then reneged under pressure from Moscow to dump that aspiration, which caused the backlash.

Would the west prefer a western leaning government to a Moscow leaning one, thats obvious, but any talk of it being a western Coup is utter bollox. It was a civilian uprising.

During the totally corrupt tenure of Yanukovich his totally corrupt government expropriated countless businesses, he was called "the sultan", and was following the Putin playbook of killing or locking up opposition figures or outspoken journalists, the corrupt courts handing out kangaroo sentences and massive schemes of theft from state ministries. It was the most corrupt of any Ukrainian Presidency to date and the people knew it and experienced it. I was in Kyiv in 2014 just as Maidan started, I know people who were on Maidan and they are well informed and are sick of the endemic corruption. They reject Putins view of a corrupt subserviant Ukraine under Russias heel.

And this in essense is the real issue. It has nothing to do with any threat whatsoever of Ukraine towards Russia, there is none. Putin harks on about Ukraine and Russia being one people and brother nations, but it was Russia that banned the use of the Ukrainian langauge, It was Mosocw that caused the Holodomor of the 1930's, where over 3 million Ukrainians starved to death. It was the soviets who executed Ukrainians, whilst they had a cosy deal with Hitler to carve up territory, before he turned on Russia.

Roll forward to the modern day and its Russia that has forcibly removed the ethnic turkic people in Crimea, that has stolen Crimea and locks up Ukrainians. It is Russia that has armed and devastated the now lawless puppet states the DNR/LNR and yet they complain of their security concerns?.

Lest anyone forget that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power and under international pressure it [stupidly] agreed to give up all of its nuclear weapons to be decommissioned for an iron clad security protection agreement, that its territorial integrity would be respected and preserved in exchange for laying down its nuclear arsenal. That agreement the Budapest memorandum of 1994 was agreed and signed by Russia, The US, the UK. It is Russia that has violated the security of Ukraine not the other way around, It is Russia that has stolen territory and killed 1000's of Ukrainian civilians, not Ukraine, not the US, UK or NATO

And why? its has nothing to do with any risk or threats that Ukraine or NATO may pose to the Russian Federation, that is horse shit, a red herring. Russia could join NATO (a mainly defensive grouping) if it wanted, nor do the ridiculous requests to roll back eastern european soveriegn countries choice to join NATO (with possibly the biggest reason being to escape Russia neo colonialism and agression).

It has everything to do with Putins own personal preservation, one the biggest threats to his corrupt, murderous regime, is a viable western facing and democratic Ukraine. For Putins biggest fear is not NATO or the West, its being strung up by his own people like Nicolae Ceausescu. NATO doesnt keep him awake at night, being over thrown by his own does. And a free, prosperous Ukraine terrifies him, thats why hes doing everything to destabilise the country and make even invade, killing many more 1000's. He's terrified of Slav's tasting western democracy or the rule of law.

Putin wants corrupt dictatorships on his doorstep, with strong men who rely on him to be in power, and for the Slavic peoples to all be enslaved in this reality, with brutal repressions for anyone who doesnt.

When Poroshenko lost to Zelenskiy not a shot was fired, when the the pople protested against the corrupt Yanukovich, many civilians on Maidan were killed by the authorities. Maybe one day when youre in Ukraine you can visit Mezhyhirya, and see the crazy opulence of his Palace (stolen from the state)

I can tell you this with 100% surity, that even in Mariupol, one of the most formerly pro Russian cities in Ukraine, where everyone speaks Russian as their first langauge, that the majority in 2014, would almost certainly have looked towards Moscow first, now they see first hand the lawlessness and choas in their quasi republics, the theft and lack of services, they realise the truth of what Putin has done to their nation and they dont want Putin, they reject him entirely, and know who he is and what he's done.

I know 4 men from 26-68 in Mariupol that are preparing to fight if he invades. You think they give a flying f*** about the US, or EU?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oh dear WZ, you have acknowledged his existence again... schoolboy error, expect more ************ based responses.

Unfortunately , I think that you'll find any faeces based thread will draw far more attention from our ex-matelot friend than anything I post

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?392688-Where-is-the-strangest-place-you-have-taken-a-dump

Well who would have thought

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Clueless muppet, parroting the bollox you watch on RT as you smoke the funny stuff.

Ive a ukrainian wife, my mother in law lives 10km from the front line in the most eastern suburb of Mariupol. She is a friend (having taught her English) to the wife of the deputy head of the SBU, and also friends with a former deputy (MP) previously in the Verkhvona Rada.
I know the country and its politics inside and out. Ive seen the devastation first hand of the Russian invasion of Donbass where over 15000 have been killed. Ive been many times through the once beautiful airport in Donetsk, now a ruin because of one man.

It was 100% a natural and organic revolution against a devastatingly corrupt Russian puppet Yanukovych, he agreed to move towards the EU which was still the majority opinion in the divided country, then reneged under pressure from Moscow to dump that aspiration, which caused the backlash.

Would the west prefer a western leaning government to a Moscow leaning one, thats obvious, but any talk of it being a western Coup is utter bollox. It was a civilian uprising.

During the totally corrupt tenure of Yanukovich his totally corrupt government expropriated countless businesses, he was called "the sultan", and was following the Putin playbook of killing or locking up opposition figures or outspoken journalists, the corrupt courts handing out kangaroo sentences and massive schemes of theft from state ministries. It was the most corrupt of any Ukrainian Presidency to date and the people knew it and experienced it. I was in Kyiv in 2014 just as Maidan started, I know people who were on Maidan and they are well informed and are sick of the endemic corruption. They reject Putins view of a corrupt subserviant Ukraine under Russias heel.

And this in essense is the real issue. It has nothing to do with any threat whatsoever of Ukraine towards Russia, there is none. Putin harks on about Ukraine and Russia being one people and brother nations, but it was Russia that banned the use of the Ukrainian langauge, It was Mosocw that caused the Holodomor of the 1930's, where over 3 million Ukrainians starved to death. It was the soviets who executed Ukrainians, whilst they had a cosy deal with Hitler to carve up territory, before he turned on Russia.

Roll forward to the modern day and its Russia that has forcibly removed the ethnic turkic people in Crimea, that has stolen Crimea and locks up Ukrainians. It is Russia that has armed and devastated the now lawless puppet states the DNR/LNR and yet they complain of their security concerns?.

Lest anyone forget that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power and under international pressure it [stupidly] agreed to give up all of its nuclear weapons to be decommissioned for an iron clad security protection agreement, that its territorial integrity would be respected and preserved in exchange for laying down its nuclear arsenal. That agreement the Budapest memorandum of 1994 was agreed and signed by Russia, The US, the UK. It is Russia that has violated the security of Ukraine not the other way around, It is Russia that has stolen territory and killed 1000's of Ukrainian civilians, not Ukraine, not the US, UK or NATO

And why? its has nothing to do with any risk or threats that Ukraine or NATO may pose to the Russian Federation, that is horse shit, a red herring. Russia could join NATO (a mainly defensive grouping) if it wanted, nor do the ridiculous requests to roll back eastern european soveriegn countries choice to join NATO (with possibly the biggest reason being to escape Russia neo colonialism and agression).

It has everything to do with Putins own personal preservation, one the biggest threats to his corrupt, murderous regime, is a viable western facing and democratic Ukraine. For Putins biggest fear is not NATO or the West, its being strung up by his own people like Nicolae Ceausescu. NATO doesnt keep him awake at night, being over thrown by his own does. And a free, prosperous Ukraine terrifies him, thats why hes doing everything to destabilise the country and make even invade, killing many more 1000's. He's terrified of Slav's tasting western democracy or the rule of law.

Putin wants corrupt dictatorships on his doorstep, with strong men who rely on him to be in power, and for the Slavic peoples to all be enslaved in this reality, with brutal repressions for anyone who doesnt.

When Poroshenko lost to Zelenskiy not a shot was fired, when the the pople protested against the corrupt Yanukovich, many civilians on Maidan were killed by the authorities. Maybe one day when youre in Ukraine you can visit Mezhyhirya, and see the crazy opulence of his Palace (stolen from the state)

I can tell you this with 100% surity, that even in Mariupol, one of the most formerly pro Russian cities in Ukraine, where everyone speaks Russian as their first langauge, that the majority in 2014, would almost certainly have looked towards Moscow first, now they see first hand the lawlessness and choas in their quasi republics, the theft and lack of services, they realise the truth of what Putin has done to their nation and they dont want Putin, they reject him entirely, and know who he is and what he's done.

I know 4 men from 26-68 in Mariupol that are preparing to fight if he invades. You think they give a flying f*** about the US, or EU?

The tragedy is that millions of Ukrainians will fight to the death and it will be a bloodbath. They know their only hope is to cost Putin too many bodybags, and hope the world imposes too massive a financial cost alongside this.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Clueless muppet, parroting the bollox you watch on RT as you smoke the funny stuff.

Ive a ukrainian wife, my mother in law lives 10km from the front line in the most eastern suburb of Mariupol. She is a friend (having taught her English) to the wife of the deputy head of the SBU, and also friends with a former deputy (MP) previously in the Verkhvona Rada.
I know the country and its politics inside and out. Ive seen the devastation first hand of the Russian invasion of Donbass where over 15000 have been killed. Ive been many times through the once beautiful airport in Donetsk, now a ruin because of one man.

It was 100% a natural and organic revolution against a devastatingly corrupt Russian puppet Yanukovych, he agreed to move towards the EU which was still the majority opinion in the divided country, then reneged under pressure from Moscow to dump that aspiration, which caused the backlash.

Would the west prefer a western leaning government to a Moscow leaning one, thats obvious, but any talk of it being a western Coup is utter bollox. It was a civilian uprising.

During the totally corrupt tenure of Yanukovich his totally corrupt government expropriated countless businesses, he was called "the sultan", and was following the Putin playbook of killing or locking up opposition figures or outspoken journalists, the corrupt courts handing out kangaroo sentences and massive schemes of theft from state ministries. It was the most corrupt of any Ukrainian Presidency to date and the people knew it and experienced it. I was in Kyiv in 2014 just as Maidan started, I know people who were on Maidan and they are well informed and are sick of the endemic corruption. They reject Putins view of a corrupt subserviant Ukraine under Russias heel.

And this in essense is the real issue. It has nothing to do with any threat whatsoever of Ukraine towards Russia, there is none. Putin harks on about Ukraine and Russia being one people and brother nations, but it was Russia that banned the use of the Ukrainian langauge, It was Mosocw that caused the Holodomor of the 1930's, where over 3 million Ukrainians starved to death. It was the soviets who executed Ukrainians, whilst they had a cosy deal with Hitler to carve up territory, before he turned on Russia.

Roll forward to the modern day and its Russia that has forcibly removed the ethnic turkic people in Crimea, that has stolen Crimea and locks up Ukrainians. It is Russia that has armed and devastated the now lawless puppet states the DNR/LNR and yet they complain of their security concerns?.

Lest anyone forget that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power and under international pressure it [stupidly] agreed to give up all of its nuclear weapons to be decommissioned for an iron clad security protection agreement, that its territorial integrity would be respected and preserved in exchange for laying down its nuclear arsenal. That agreement the Budapest memorandum of 1994 was agreed and signed by Russia, The US, the UK. It is Russia that has violated the security of Ukraine not the other way around, It is Russia that has stolen territory and killed 1000's of Ukrainian civilians, not Ukraine, not the US, UK or NATO

And why? its has nothing to do with any risk or threats that Ukraine or NATO may pose to the Russian Federation, that is horse shit, a red herring. Russia could join NATO (a mainly defensive grouping) if it wanted, nor do the ridiculous requests to roll back eastern european soveriegn countries choice to join NATO (with possibly the biggest reason being to escape Russia neo colonialism and agression).

It has everything to do with Putins own personal preservation, one the biggest threats to his corrupt, murderous regime, is a viable western facing and democratic Ukraine. For Putins biggest fear is not NATO or the West, its being strung up by his own people like Nicolae Ceausescu. NATO doesnt keep him awake at night, being over thrown by his own does. And a free, prosperous Ukraine terrifies him, thats why hes doing everything to destabilise the country and make even invade, killing many more 1000's. He's terrified of Slav's tasting western democracy or the rule of law.

Putin wants corrupt dictatorships on his doorstep, with strong men who rely on him to be in power, and for the Slavic peoples to all be enslaved in this reality, with brutal repressions for anyone who doesnt.

When Poroshenko lost to Zelenskiy not a shot was fired, when the the pople protested against the corrupt Yanukovich, many civilians on Maidan were killed by the authorities. Maybe one day when youre in Ukraine you can visit Mezhyhirya, and see the crazy opulence of his Palace (stolen from the state)

I can tell you this with 100% surity, that even in Mariupol, one of the most formerly pro Russian cities in Ukraine, where everyone speaks Russian as their first langauge, that the majority in 2014, would almost certainly have looked towards Moscow first, now they see first hand the lawlessness and choas in their quasi republics, the theft and lack of services, they realise the truth of what Putin has done to their nation and they dont want Putin, they reject him entirely, and know who he is and what he's done.

I know 4 men from 26-68 in Mariupol that are preparing to fight if he invades. You think they give a flying f*** about the US, or EU?

Thanks for that detailed insight into a complex issue. Difficult to know which side will blink first - hopefully neither.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Still makes me shudder when I think what might have been..

Indeed but It's quite amusing that the OP and stalky Mcstalkface spend so much time on here criticising others for their political choices when they both would have preferred someone in number 10 who would rather believe Vladimir Putin than the UK security services ....

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[Baker lite]

Indeed but It's quite amusing that the OP and stalky Mcstalkface spend so much time on here criticising others for their political choices when they both would have preferred someone in number 10 who would rather believe Vladimir Putin than the UK security services ....

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Would love to know their thoughts on Beijing Barry and his China crisis?


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[Machiavelli]

Still the least worse combo considering the alternatives ..

Putin v Trump and Boris

Putin and Corbyn v Trump/Biden

[emoji6]


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Putin + Farage vs Macron, Merkel + Biden

 

[vegster]

Clueless muppet, parroting the bollox you watch on RT as you smoke the funny stuff.

Ive a ukrainian wife, my mother in law lives 10km from the front line in the most eastern suburb of Mariupol. She is a friend (having taught her English) to the wife of the deputy head of the SBU, and also friends with a former deputy (MP) previously in the Verkhvona Rada.
I know the country and its politics inside and out. Ive seen the devastation first hand of the Russian invasion of Donbass where over 15000 have been killed. Ive been many times through the once beautiful airport in Donetsk, now a ruin because of one man.

It was 100% a natural and organic revolution against a devastatingly corrupt Russian puppet Yanukovych, he agreed to move towards the EU which was still the majority opinion in the divided country, then reneged under pressure from Moscow to dump that aspiration, which caused the backlash.

Would the west prefer a western leaning government to a Moscow leaning one, thats obvious, but any talk of it being a western Coup is utter bollox. It was a civilian uprising.

During the totally corrupt tenure of Yanukovich his totally corrupt government expropriated countless businesses, he was called "the sultan", and was following the Putin playbook of killing or locking up opposition figures or outspoken journalists, the corrupt courts handing out kangaroo sentences and massive schemes of theft from state ministries. It was the most corrupt of any Ukrainian Presidency to date and the people knew it and experienced it. I was in Kyiv in 2014 just as Maidan started, I know people who were on Maidan and they are well informed and are sick of the endemic corruption. They reject Putins view of a corrupt subserviant Ukraine under Russias heel.

And this in essense is the real issue. It has nothing to do with any threat whatsoever of Ukraine towards Russia, there is none. Putin harks on about Ukraine and Russia being one people and brother nations, but it was Russia that banned the use of the Ukrainian langauge, It was Mosocw that caused the Holodomor of the 1930's, where over 3 million Ukrainians starved to death. It was the soviets who executed Ukrainians, whilst they had a cosy deal with Hitler to carve up territory, before he turned on Russia.

Roll forward to the modern day and its Russia that has forcibly removed the ethnic turkic people in Crimea, that has stolen Crimea and locks up Ukrainians. It is Russia that has armed and devastated the now lawless puppet states the DNR/LNR and yet they complain of their security concerns?.

Lest anyone forget that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power and under international pressure it [stupidly] agreed to give up all of its nuclear weapons to be decommissioned for an iron clad security protection agreement, that its territorial integrity would be respected and preserved in exchange for laying down its nuclear arsenal. That agreement the Budapest memorandum of 1994 was agreed and signed by Russia, The US, the UK. It is Russia that has violated the security of Ukraine not the other way around, It is Russia that has stolen territory and killed 1000's of Ukrainian civilians, not Ukraine, not the US, UK or NATO

And why? its has nothing to do with any risk or threats that Ukraine or NATO may pose to the Russian Federation, that is horse shit, a red herring. Russia could join NATO (a mainly defensive grouping) if it wanted, nor do the ridiculous requests to roll back eastern european soveriegn countries choice to join NATO (with possibly the biggest reason being to escape Russia neo colonialism and agression).

It has everything to do with Putins own personal preservation, one the biggest threats to his corrupt, murderous regime, is a viable western facing and democratic Ukraine. For Putins biggest fear is not NATO or the West, its being strung up by his own people like Nicolae Ceausescu. NATO doesnt keep him awake at night, being over thrown by his own does. And a free, prosperous Ukraine terrifies him, thats why hes doing everything to destabilise the country and make even invade, killing many more 1000's. He's terrified of Slav's tasting western democracy or the rule of law.

Putin wants corrupt dictatorships on his doorstep, with strong men who rely on him to be in power, and for the Slavic peoples to all be enslaved in this reality, with brutal repressions for anyone who doesnt.

When Poroshenko lost to Zelenskiy not a shot was fired, when the the pople protested against the corrupt Yanukovich, many civilians on Maidan were killed by the authorities. Maybe one day when youre in Ukraine you can visit Mezhyhirya, and see the crazy opulence of his Palace (stolen from the state)

I can tell you this with 100% surity, that even in Mariupol, one of the most formerly pro Russian cities in Ukraine, where everyone speaks Russian as their first langauge, that the majority in 2014, would almost certainly have looked towards Moscow first, now they see first hand the lawlessness and choas in their quasi republics, the theft and lack of services, they realise the truth of what Putin has done to their nation and they dont want Putin, they reject him entirely, and know who he is and what he's done.

I know 4 men from 26-68 in Mariupol that are preparing to fight if he invades. You think they give a flying f*** about the US, or EU?

Thanks for your incredibly detailed and revealing post. I know some of what you post already but sometimes we need to stop, think and re assess. Yes, Ukraine is/was NO threat to Russia and Putin is engineering a conflict to look big as usual. Sadly, when dealing with Russia it always seems a federation of democracies with disparate views is dealing with a superpower run exclusively for the wishes of one man.

 

[peterward]

The tragedy is that millions of Ukrainians will fight to the death and it will be a bloodbath. They know their only hope is to cost Putin too many bodybags, and hope the world imposes too massive a financial cost alongside this.

It will be a tragedy too for the families of Russian conscripts who will sent to fight (and die). And just like the UK isnt Boris and the US isnt just Trump, nor is Russia just Putin or the Kremlin. A lot of good and decent people their in whose name the despot who has hijacked the country will act.

Not that I have the first clue about military stuff, but I read a compelling argument this week, that if Russia does strike, Ukrainian armed forces would be best immediately fracturing into smaller groups and retreating. Russia has massive air superiority and naval too (it stole much of the Ukrainian navy in Crimea). If large ukrainan military formations stay together, they'll be easy pray for Russian air strikes, which you may suspect before any Russian ground assault? What seems an inevitable scenario, is if Russia attacks, it will quickly advance and take cities/territory. Ukrainian military staying en masse in larger batallion groups, may slow it down, but they'll likley suffer large casualties and be sitting ducks from the air.

They wont be able to stop Russia taking territory, but they can make it nigh on impossible for them to hold onto it. And whislt it may look like an easy Russian win in Month 1, but what will be the picture in Month 6 etc. By fracturing into smaller, partly decentralised mobile units and guerilla warfare, they can try and cut off supply and do something similar to what the Afghans did. Never ceasing guerilla actions by smaller mobile units, no doubt being constantly re-armed from sympahising countries on their border like the baltics and Romania/Poland.

Lord hopes it doesnt come to that, but this is a manufactured crisis created by Putin. The Ukrainians will fight as its their land and I dare say their morale will be higher than Russian conscripts. Putin stands with a gun at Ukraines head saying "love me forever or die" and only he alone will decide whether he invades or not, but he's both a Russian imperialist, and terrified of a successful democracy on his doorstep that ordinary Russians will see and relate to.

Its always the innocent civilians who suffer.

 

[Bruntburger]

Maybe need to get Ukraine and Russia to agree to a UN led and supervised vote in these eastern Ukraine areas to see if they do indeed considers themselves was Russian?

We support Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and Falklands etc because the majority of population wants to remain British.

We can’t be hypocritical if the eastern Ukrainians identify with Russia and wish to be closer to Russia than Europe.

If they want to be Independent Ukraine then great, and then we need to move to the next question, would we ourselves have an issue with Northern Ireland becoming Irish and then Russia becoming their protectorate with high tech weaponry stationed there just a few miles across the sea?

 

[Is it PotG?]

UK nationals advised to get the heck out.

Kick-off imminent?

 

[Da Man Clay]

UK nationals advised to get the heck out.

Kick-off imminent?

Rumour seems to be next week