[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[vegster]

Talk of the UK supplying anti ship missiles along with further anti tank missiles, body armour and night vision gear ....what with the Slovak SAM'S and Czech APC's we are slowly edging towards a full on conflict.

Given Russia's actions, basically complete destruction of Ukraine and its people, this is going to happen. We just have not realised it yet .

 

[dazzer6666]

[Tweet]1512791528607031303[/Tweet]

Fair play to him for this….not the usual cushy business trip without risk. Important statement of support.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And following on from the last tweet:

[Tweet]1512867082932793347 [/tweet]

Andriy Sybiha, deputy head of the Ukrainian president's office, said: "The UK is the leader in defence support for Ukraine. The leader in the anti-war coalition. The leader in sanctions against the Russian aggressor."

This makes me proud of the efforts our country, both at government level and also on the ground by our people here and abroad, to help and support the defence of Ukraine and to help the Ukrainian people where possible. I very much hope the problems helping refugees will be sorted soon but at least there are other areas we are excelling in.

 

[The Clamp]

Talk of the UK supplying anti ship missiles along with further anti tank missiles, body armour and night vision gear ....what with the Slovak SAM'S and Czech APC's we are slowly edging towards a full on conflict.

Given Russia's actions, basically complete destruction of Ukraine and its people, this is going to happen. We just have not realised it yet .

I would say it’s almost inevitable that Nato is going to end up at war with Russia.

 

[The Clamp]

Wrong thread

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Watched the Savile doc recently. I don’t really see what it added. Just a load of repeated clips with a few people saying they knew/didn’t know he was a wrong ‘un. Nothing we didn’t know back in 2013.

I’m guessing they’re cashing in on the upcoming Steve Coogan series.

Think you've posted on the wrong thread!

 

[The Clamp]

Think you've posted on the wrong thread!

I should say I have! Apologies.

 

[portlock seagull]

I would say it’s almost inevitable that Nato is going to end up at war with Russia.

Well, if it is then let’s get on with it. Russia is an international pariah now, and will not be forgiven for its crimes for many generations. Putin’s place in history along side Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and co is assured. The Russian people are complicit, just like the Germans were despite all the revisionist wash written more recently. The West will be left with no choice. Bullies cannot be left to maraud indefinitely. If the war escalates then that’s on Putin and the Russian people. 84 million people displaced by Dictators like Putin and Assad. 84 million. The misery they’ve caused is off the scale. The ramifications even greater. Now perhaps is the time we have to act? I don’t envy Boris, Biden and co. Impossible situation really. I guess we have to back our horse regardless in a race where there are only losers.

 

[Eric the meek]

'S&P downgrades Russia, making default likely'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61032786 Posted at 22:11 9 Apr

Credit ratings agency Standard & Poor has downgraded its assessment of Russia's ability to pay its foreign debt.
Analysts say this makes a default, which would be a first for the nation since the 1917 revolution, extremely likely.
On Saturday, the agency lowered its assessment to “selective default”, after Russia made arrangements to pay one of its debts in roubles instead of dollars.
The agency said further sanctions were likely and would hamper "Russia's willingness and technical abilities to honour the terms and conditions of its obligations to foreign debtholders".
The lower rating means the chance of not getting repaid is considered to be high, so an investor will charge more to lend to that country.

 

[essbee1]

'S&P downgrades Russia, making default likely'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61032786 Posted at 22:11 9 Apr

Credit ratings agency Standard & Poor has downgraded its assessment of Russia's ability to pay its foreign debt.
Analysts say this makes a default, which would be a first for the nation since the 1917 revolution, extremely likely.
On Saturday, the agency lowered its assessment to “selective default”, after Russia made arrangements to pay one of its debts in roubles instead of dollars.
The agency said further sanctions were likely and would hamper "Russia's willingness and technical abilities to honour the terms and conditions of its obligations to foreign debtholders".
The lower rating means the chance of not getting repaid is considered to be high, so an investor will charge more to lend to that country.

Eric, ta for this. How would this play out in terms of its effect in general society/on the average Russian do you know? I just
think that until things get desperate for them, Putin will carry on.

 

[Eric the meek]

'Real embargo on Russian energy could end Ukraine war'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61040424

This is the assessment of Dr Andrei Illarionov, President Putin's former chief economic advisor.

'I would say [that within a] few months [of] real deep economic trouble, that we haven't seen in 30 years, it will change the mood of the society. More people will start to speak out loudly."

He also said a change of government is inevitable "sooner or later".

 

[essbee1]

'Real embargo on Russian energy could end Ukraine war'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61040424

This is the assessment of Dr Andrei Illarionov, President Putin's former chief economic advisor.

'I would say [that within a] few months [of] real deep economic trouble, that we haven't seen in 30 years, it will change the mood of the society. More people will start to speak out loudly."

He also said a change of government is inevitable "sooner or later".

Ta. There must inevitably be a tipping point at which people will say "enough is enough", irrespective of how
much they support that ******.

 

[Eric the meek]

Eric, ta for this. How would this play out in terms of its effect in general society/on the average Russian do you know? I just
think that until things get desperate for them, Putin will carry on.

I think things are desperate for them right now. Whether it will make any difference is another matter.

Don't let anyone tell you that the sanctions are not working. You don't have the financial brains of the western world getting together to specifically target another country's economy, and expect little or nothing to happen. I suspect the unspoken aim is to bankrupt Russia, so it is forced to stop the war because it can't pay or feed its troops, can't deliver the fuel or ammo or produce more weapons. The killer sanction will be the full embargo on Russian energy covered in the linked article above.

Fwiw, I think Putin will disregard any and all suffering by ordinary Russian people. Inflation, job losses, hardship, food shortages, starvation, you name it, will all be covered up for as long as he can get away with it. His support will ebb away slowly, but when will it be enough to unseat him? It could be years.

 

[Motogull]

I think things are desperate for them right now. Whether it will make any difference is another matter.

Don't let anyone tell you that the sanctions are not working. You don't have the financial brains of the western world getting together to specifically target another country's economy, and expect little or nothing to happen. I suspect the unspoken aim is to bankrupt Russia, so it is forced to stop the war because it can't pay or feed its troops, can't deliver the fuel or ammo or produce more weapons. The killer sanction will be the full embargo on Russian energy covered in the linked article above.

Fwiw, I think Putin will disregard any and all suffering by ordinary Russian people. Inflation, job losses, hardship, food shortages, starvation, you name it, will all be covered up for as long as he can get away with it. His support will ebb away slowly, but when will it be enough to unseat him? It could be years.

The Russian people are hardened to a tough life, so will be able to endure economic sanctions better than most. The bigger issue is whether Putin's domestic propaganda machine still works and whether he can fix another election.

The crossroads will be Putin in a coffin. Sadly, until that happens I reckon little will change.

 

[Eric the meek]

The Russian people are hardened to a tough life, so will be able to endure economic sanctions better than most. The bigger issue is whether Putin's domestic propaganda machine still works and whether he can fix another election.

The crossroads will be Putin in a coffin. Sadly, until that happens I reckon little will change.

Yes, I agree with your points.
Here's a bit more evidence that the sanctions are taking effect.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ets-abroad-is-double-edged-weapon-2022-04-05/

'Putin says world faces food crisis due to West's sanctions'

You can see what this means.

1) The sanctions are hitting home.
2) He is getting his excuses in early, preparing Russia to blame the west for a world food shortage, rather than his own war in Ukraine.
3) He is talking about Russia. He is telling us that Russia will have a food crisis...

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Does anyone actually know about this Starstreak missile built and seems supplied by the UK government is it genuine game changer used in the right way?

 

[Baldseagull]

Does anyone actually know about this Starstreak missile built and seems supplied by the UK government is it genuine game changer used in the right way?

Not in any way an expert, but have been looking into it myself, and it should be. It is the fastest man carried ground to air missile available, reaches Mach 4 and has advanced targeting methods not susceptible to the most common counter measures. UK forces estimate it as having a 95%+ rate of hitting the target. Attack helicopters are ****ed if the Ukrainians have plenty of these, fixed wing jets can be targeted but will not be so easy to acquire as a target whilst within range.

Reckoned to be a starstreak hit in Ukraine. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60968544

 

[essbee1]

Not in any way an expert, but have been looking into it myself, and it should be. It is the fastest man carried ground to air missile available, reaches Mach 4 and has advanced targeting methods not susceptible to the most common counter measures. UK forces estimate it as having a 95%+ rate of hitting the target. Attack helicopters are ****ed if the Ukrainians have plenty of these, fixed wing jets can be targeted but will not be so easy to acquire as a target whilst within range.

Reckoned to be a starstreak hit in Ukraine. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60968544

It pleases me greatly seeing one of those Russian helicopters taking it full on. May many more suffer the same fate.

 

[dazzer6666]

Does anyone actually know about this Starstreak missile built and seems supplied by the UK government is it genuine game changer used in the right way?

[tweet]1513135291627970560[/tweet]

 

[Eric the meek]

Enough of that war combat stuff. Facebook is where it's at.

'Putin's mysterious Facebook 'superfans' on a mission'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-61012398

Warning: some of the Facebook accounts described in this article may be real and not operated by the Russian government. Which is even scarier.