[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

That won't happen, either.
In my (probable) stupid opinion, should this end, 'relatively' peacefully - and soon - I think the whole of the West should help them rebuild. All of us.

We're all guilty of future gazing. Only the passage of time will prove whether we were right or wrong.

Here's my tuppence worth. I think a 'peaceful' end is possible, but probably only following a regime change in the Kremlin, with someone who is not a maniac, taking over.
Then, peace will have a chance.

Until that happens, I suspect that the future is highly uncertain.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

That won't happen, either.
In my (probable) stupid opinion, should this end, 'relatively' peacefully - and soon - I think the whole of the West should help them rebuild. All of us.

We will end up paying for it.

Putin won't pick up the bill of course.

Although the sale proceeds from the yachts, property and assets of the Oligarchs should be the first money into the rebuilding fund.

 

[birthofanorange]

We're all guilty of future gazing. Only the passage of time will prove whether we were right or wrong.

Here's my tuppence worth. I think a 'peaceful' end is possible, but probably only following a regime change in the Kremlin, with someone who is not a maniac, taking over.
Then, peace will have a chance.

Until that happens, I suspect that the future is highly uncertain.

The biggest 'wrong' is WW3, the next biggest 'wrong' is seeing what's going on in Ukraine.
We can only judge, future-wise, if anyone is still around to judge.

 

[Triggaaar]

Here's my tuppence worth. I think a 'peaceful' end is possible, but probably only following a regime change in the Kremlin, with someone who is not a maniac, taking over.

I'm not expecting regime change, but if there was one, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a peaceful end even if Putin's replacement was another narcissist. While they wouldn't care for Ukrainians, they'd probably realise that their best chance of power worth having would be to get sanctions lifted and Russia back on track, simply blaming the invasion on their predecessor.

 

[Eric the meek]

The biggest 'wrong' is WW3, the next biggest 'wrong' is seeing what's going on in Ukraine.
We can only judge, future-wise, if anyone is still around to judge.

I take your point.

I wish I could find the words to put your mind at rest. But I can't. Neither can I see into the future. I can only see - and comment on - the present.

I hesitate to say this, but the thing that worries me, is the Russians' recklessness - shelling nuclear power stations, the total disregard for the sanctity of human life, shooting civilians while they are evacuating etc. It is that which worries me the most. Again, I hesitate to use such a phrase, but we are not dealing with normal people here, or normal behaviour.

 

[birthofanorange]

I take your point.

I wish I could find the words to put your mind at rest. But I can't. Neither can I see into the future. I can only see - and comment on - the present.

I hesitate to say this, but the thing that worries me, is the Russians' recklessness - shelling nuclear power stations, the total disregard for the sanctity of human life, shooting civilians while they are evacuating etc. It is that which worries me the most. Again, I hesitate to use such a phrase, but we are not dealing with normal people here, or normal behaviour.

The one thing that will put my mind at rest is if someone...anyone....takes out Putin. Yes, he 'might' be replaced by someone similar (or worse), but it's possible it will be someone less aggressive/mad/you name it.

The one thing that nobody (sane) would want, is for this to kick-off WW3.....at least, not for now, and maybe not in the future.

My mind will not rest until this is over.

 

[danielson81]

Hope this is unconnected Iran has allegedly fired misslies at the US Consulate in Erbil, Iraq.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-base-Kurdish-news-channel-office-Erbil.html

Apologies its the Daily Mail.

Edit - it appears unconnected, but worrying.

 

[birthofanorange]

We will end up paying for it.

Putin won't pick up the bill of course.

Although the sale proceeds from the yachts, property and assets of the Oligarchs should be the first money into the rebuilding fund.

So be it. A (financial) price to pay to stop WW3. It does nothing to compensate the loss of loved ones and peaceable folk of Ukraine, and, as has been mooted many times here, it may well not be the end of it all.
But...it buys time - and that's all we can hope for.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Christ, could you actually imagine if Trump was still in charge in this situation

Ukraine probably doesn't get invaded.

 

[vegster]

or time delay, both could be true. BBC tends behind the time, feeds on the web tend to be fresh info. been a feature of this war seeing the difference and lag between traditional media and internet media.

The BBC is often slower with new information simply because they have an official edict to be sure what they publish is genuine and verifiable. It's not their fault, they have been accused of bias or " propaganda " by left and right so many times they prefer not to break a story unless it can be confirmed by other sources.

It was funny hearing Dorres supporting the BBC' s reporting on Ukraine as " Brave and unbiased " when a couple of months earlier she was happy to castrate them.

 

[vegster]

Sadly we are all going to have muddle through without any further geo-political insight offered by Pork Pie

Thanks, I'm pretty sure his recent contributions were just beer fuelled attention seeking. This really isn't the thread .

 

[Curious Orange]

Ukraine probably doesn't get invaded.

Unlikely, neither Trump nor Biden are in favour of American involvement in overseas conflict, and Putin doesn't care about what the vast majority of other countries think in any case.

 

[Icy Gull]

Eight Russian missiles hit a target 10 miles from the Polish border, we are one mistake/deliberate action away from a big escalation

 

[vegster]

That won't happen, either.
In my (probable) stupid opinion, should this end, 'relatively' peacefully - and soon - I think the whole of the West should help them rebuild. All of us.

I think you are totally correct. The West has been unable to give the military support that they fully deserve in the form of Western armed forces. I would like us to give whatever we can financially or physically to help them rebuild . Either sponsoring rebuilds of Hospitals, schools, colleges and Univeraties. Sponsoring a family or orphan or dependants whose men have died defending the country and struggling with monthly cash.

Those with building, infrastructure and design skills could go holiday for a week or two and offer their services for free as a working holiday . Failing that maybe as many of us as possible should holiday there, pay their respects and spend our cash there in order to help their economy to recover.

Finally, maybe we all try to learn to speak some Ukrainian? We need to send a signal out that we will never again allow a country such as Ukraine to be snuffed out by an aggressor.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Christ, could you actually imagine if Trump was still in charge in this situation

It has just hit me what Putin's chilling plan would have been.

Ukraine invaded. And then into the Baltics.

Trump gives no support whatsoever, says that the USA won't defend the Baltics and as a result USA leaves NATO. Europe at Putin's ( lack of ) mercy.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Unlikely, neither Trump nor Biden are in favour of American involvement in overseas conflict, and Putin doesn't care about what the vast majority of other countries think in any case.

Putin probably thought he could get away with it under Biden, why wouldn't he though when he'd annexed Crimea in 2014 when Biden was Vice President and got away with it.

Putin had the playbook on one already on how the US would act militarily, the other loose cannon he had no idea how to read what might happen.


As they say, it takes crazy to recognise crazy.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It has just hit me what Putin's chilling plan would have been.

Ukraine invaded. And then into the Baltics.

Trump gives no support whatsoever, says that the USA won't defend the Baltics and as a result USA leaves NATO. Europe at Putin's ( lack of ) mercy.

That makes zero sense.

If that was his plan why didn't he just do that when Trump was in power?

Why wait?

 

[The Clamp]

Ukraine probably doesn't get invaded.

Ludicrous.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

That makes zero sense.

If that was his plan why didn't he just do that when Trump was in power?

Why wait?

It makes total sense. Trump was already agitating to leave NATO and it would have been on the second term agenda if he had consolidated enough power in the senate/house of reps.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Eight Russian missiles hit a target 10 miles from the Polish border, we are one mistake/deliberate action away from a big escalation

They hit one of the bases where exercises with foreign troops take place. I hope there were no covert UK / US personnel still unofficially there although they would probably be in less obvious locations.

I haven't heard that the locals I know that had joined up to fight Putin were at that base, hopefully not. Might find out later, no news is good news I suspect.