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[Football] Russell Martin, De Zerbi's eventual successor?



Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,386
In the field
Parking the ludicrous Potter suggestion, the other candidates mentioned (Martin, Lallana, McKenna, Rosenior etc) all need an extra step before managing us - if we continue to inhabit the higher reaches of the PL, IMO.
 




rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,680
I believe when the day comes, for RDZ to move on. Then a certain Adam Lallana will slip straight into his seat, with the minimum of fuss.
With absolutely no managerial experience whatsoever. Anywhere. At any level.

No thanks!
 




American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
777
Ummmm

Poyet had been at three clubs as assistant manager before he joined us. And where were we? In League One. A world away from managing a top half PL club.
The original post was that Brighton wouldn't give a manager their first position. All I was saying is that is false as we have done so in the past.
 






Lurchy

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2014
2,411
The original post was that Brighton wouldn't give a manager their first position. All I was saying is that is false as we have done so in the past.
We were in a very different position as a club then.

Tony will want someone in who has a track record that matches our playing principles and club philosophy.

Francesco Farioli and Matthias Jaissle will be on our short list.
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,386
In the field
The original post was that Brighton wouldn't give a manager their first position. All I was saying is that is false as we have done so in the past.
The original post was mine and I was fully aware when making that Brighton had previously given first managerial roles to others, but it was clearly meant in the context of doing so in the PL, rather than the lower divisions. I would bet my mortgage on RDZ's successor not being a first time manager.
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
777
The original post was mine and I was fully aware when making that Brighton had previously given first managerial roles to others, but it was clearly meant in the context of doing so in the PL, rather than the lower divisions. I would bet my mortgage on RDZ's successor not being a first time manager.
I would bet Bloom will hire the right person for the job regardless of prior experience. Why dismiss a potentially good manager? I think Bloom will look at the evidence in front of him and not dismiss a candidate based on the assumption they will need experience.
 




Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
18,428
Indiana, USA
I would bet Bloom will hire the right person for the job regardless of prior experience. Why dismiss a potentially good manager? I think Bloom will look at the evidence in front of him and not dismiss a candidate based on the assumption they will need experience.

Yes, it goes back to the saying "how does one get experience (in the PL) if one is not given their first experience (in the PL) in the first place."
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,386
In the field
I would bet Bloom will hire the right person for the job regardless of prior experience. Why dismiss a potentially good manager? I think Bloom will look at the evidence in front of him and not dismiss a candidate based on the assumption they will need experience.
It is not an assumption that someone needs experience before they get a PL managerial job. That's borne out by the number of times a PL job has gone to someone with no managerial experience, excluding short caretaker spells. Without looking it up, I'd guess it has happened less than 5 times before.
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
777
It is not an assumption that someone needs experience before they get a PL managerial job. That's borne out by the number of times a PL job has gone to someone with no managerial experience, excluding short caretaker spells. Without looking it up, I'd guess it has happened less than 5 times before.
If you look at the clubs recruitment it is exactly this sort of myth we don't take notice of.
 




Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,386
In the field
If you look at the clubs recruitment it is exactly this sort of myth we don't take notice of.
I'm interested to explore this further. I'm struggling to see the connection between managers very rarely getting PL jobs without experience and our club's recruitment stance.

At a very obvious level, if you look at the two managerial appointments that Tony has made whilst we've been in the PL, neither were appointed as first time managers. Both had built their careers and reputations in a variety of leagues and countries.

I'm guessing you're probably referring to our transfer policy of being very data-driven and managing to unearth a collection of players who have performed at a PL level whilst not coming with a PL price tag or reputation. Whilst that is clearly something that we do differently to most clubs, my argument is that you have much more room for error when pursuing that policy at a player level because you're always going to have a mix of tried-and-tested squad members and very experienced heads like Welbeck, Lallana and Milner etc to balance things out.

The idea that we'd apply the same process when choosing a manager isn't something I'm really prepared to back. There's far less room for error if the gamble doesn't pay off. Yes, can you easily pay someone off and find a replacement, but often a pre-season/transfer window has been wasted in the process.

Whilst I'm fully on board with the idea of choosing less "fashionable" or obvious managerial candidates (let's be honest, RDZ came out of the blue for many people in terms of who he was, his style and what he'd achieved etc), I genuinely don't believe that whilst we're in the PL at least Tony will appoint someone as manager who hasn't done the job before at first team level anywhere else.
 


American Seagle

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2022
777
I'm interested to explore this further. I'm struggling to see the connection between managers very rarely getting PL jobs without experience and our club's recruitment stance.

At a very obvious level, if you look at the two managerial appointments that Tony has made whilst we've been in the PL, neither were appointed as first time managers. Both had built their careers and reputations in a variety of leagues and countries.

I'm guessing you're probably referring to our transfer policy of being very data-driven and managing to unearth a collection of players who have performed at a PL level whilst not coming with a PL price tag or reputation. Whilst that is clearly something that we do differently to most clubs, my argument is that you have much more room for error when pursuing that policy at a player level because you're always going to have a mix of tried-and-tested squad members and very experienced heads like Welbeck, Lallana and Milner etc to balance things out.

The idea that we'd apply the same process when choosing a manager isn't something I'm really prepared to back. There's far less room for error if the gamble doesn't pay off. Yes, can you easily pay someone off and find a replacement, but often a pre-season/transfer window has been wasted in the process.

Whilst I'm fully on board with the idea of choosing less "fashionable" or obvious managerial candidates (let's be honest, RDZ came out of the blue for many people in terms of who he was, his style and what he'd achieved etc), I genuinely don't believe that whilst we're in the PL at least Tony will appoint someone as manager who hasn't done the job before at first team level anywhere else.
It is probably unlikely, but I really wouldn't rule it out. Especially an in-house appointment.
 










jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,526
do not want martin. it seems a logical choice, and i want us to continue our possession based style, but i just think we should be more ambitious
Ambitious how though? We aren’t going to attract a top name, and even if we did it would be one on a low ebb in their career that no bigger club wants. Surely it would be more ambitious to get an in-demand up and comer?
 


Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
13,175
London
I have a good mate who is a Saints fan. He is adamant they have got to where they have got to this season despite Martin. He says they have one way of playing and stick to it what ever happens, have no plan b and Martin completely refused to play pragmatically at any time, meaning they lose games that they should be winning because he won’t adapt and adjust.

Have to say that doesn’t make me particularly keen to get him here.
 




Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
24,169
GOSBTS
I don’t know why but I really dislike Russell Martin as well, I can’t see the club taking a risk like they so hope it’s just lazy journalism
 


dwayne

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
15,488
London
I have a good mate who is a Saints fan. He is adamant they have got to where they have got to this season despite Martin. He says they have one way of playing and stick to it what ever happens, have no plan b and Martin completely refused to play pragmatically at any time, meaning they lose games that they should be winning because he won’t adapt and adjust.

Have to say that doesn’t make me particularly keen to get him here.
Sounds a bit like a manager we just had ;)
 


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