Rules question

[BensGrandad]

What's hard to understand?

only players who are ON the field of play at the end of the match,
which includes extra time where appropriate,
are eligible to take kicks from the penalty mark

E

Where does it say all 11 players must take a kick? There appears nothing in the law which stops a club making any player take a penalty. What is to stop a club by passing their keeper and their normal oenalty taker being next in line. It only says the ref must be advised.

 

[Everest]

Where does it say all 11 players must take a kick? There appears nothing in the law which stops a club making any player take a penalty. What is to stop a club by passing their keeper and their normal oenalty taker being next in line. It only says the ref must be advised.

If you'd bothered reading on, first line page 55

Each kick is taken by a different player and all eligible players must take a
kick before any player can take a second kick

 

[BensGrandad]

As I said where does it define eligible players other than must be on the field at the final whistle. It should say ALL players on the pitch become eligible that would suffice to make it compulsory for all 11 players to take a kick, but it doesnt say that.

My goalkeeper hurt his ankle so cant kick does that make him eligible still. If we hadnt used all our subs we would have taken him off as he was injured.

 

[Everest]

...

As I said where does it define eligible players other than must be on the field at the final whistle. It should say ALL players on the pitch become eligible that would suffice to make it compulsory for all 11 players to take a kick, but it doesnt say that.

FFS. Are you really that stupid? If it said "ALL players on the pitch become eligible", where does it say that all those OFF the pitch are NOT?


My goalkeeper hurt his ankle so cant kick does that make him eligible still. If we hadnt used all our subs we would have taken him off as he was injured.

If he's hurt his ankle and couldn't kick, do you really think he'd be able to be in the position to dive (pushing off with his injured ankle)? Of course he's still eligible. You still have the opportunity to replace the keeper with one of the other eligible players if you wish though

 

[BensGrandad]

...

Bert Trautman played on in a cup final with a broken neck. When I was a member of Surrey FA I was on the league sanctions and rules revision committe andu it was rules like this that we reworded so that there could be no manipulation through missing or confusing words. I am sure we would have removed any possible element of doubt over interpretation of wording.

 

[BensGrandad]

...

That is my point could I replace him with another eligible player? The law is ambiguous to say the least And should be full proof.

 

[Everest]

I know Bert Trautmann played with a broken neck, but not during penalty kicks, AET.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the wording.
It's very easy to understand.

What is ambiguous about "An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper at any time when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken"?

You should read ALL of the laws. You may learn a hell of a lot.

Although I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BensGrandad]

Man utd v Real Madrid 10 all after 20 penalties. Where does it say LVG cannot tell Rooney to take the 11th kick and that De Gea must take it All it says is a player must be eligible and the ref notified. LVG deems De Gea not eligible as not able to kick and for the last 10 mins he has had to throw the ball out and couldnt move to face the penalties. Man U relied on somebody missing the goal altogether.

 

[Everest]

What the feck are you on about?
Rooney and De Gea can't both take the next penalty.

Feck knows how you were a member of the Surrey F.A.

A member, yes.
Of the Surrey FA, no.

 

[BensGrandad]

What the feck are you on about?
Rooney and De Gea can't both take the next penalty.

Feck knows how you were a member of the Surrey F.A.

A member, yes.
Of the Surrey FA, no.

LVG tell Rooney to take it instead of DeGea within the rules as printed. Just to point out I was co -opted onto Surrey FA council then re elected at the next AGM sItting on the League Sanctions and Rules Revision committee under the chairman ship of Bill Cannon and subsequently sat on many many disciplinary hearings.

As an added piece of info our 5 -0 defeat at Selhurst nearly didnt take place as I asked for a ticket as per my Surrey pass and they said it was a sellout and I couldnt have a seat. The secretary of Surrey FA Les Smith phoned and told them they had to find me a seat or the game couldnt go ahead. I was going officially as a Surrey FA representative. They found me a seat next to an Arsenal player who was not playing for them as he was out injured, David Rocastle.

 

[Everest]

In that case, LVG would have been a complete dick for letting De Gea face the penalties when he can't move.
Do you really think he's that stupid?

 

[Official Old Man]

So I'm sat here thinking that between Everest and BensGrandad I might get an answer, instead you two are just bickering with each other.
Eligible players are those playing at the final whistle. You may recall was it LVG who swopped keepers in the final minutes of a world cup game because the sub keeper was better at stopping penalties.
Can a player 'remove himself from the pitch' with seconds to go to avoid taking a penalty, think not.
I'm off to the FA to get an answer.

 

[BensGrandad]

In that case, LVG would have been a complete dick for letting De Gea face the penalties when he can't move.
Do you really think he's that stupid?

Not talking of the semantics of what is right or wrong or the possibility of it happening, just interpretation of the written law

 

[Official Old Man]

LVG tell Rooney to take it instead of DeGea within the rules as printed.

Just to clarify. You say that Rooney WOULD be allowed to take the 11th pen even though he has already taken, let's say, the 5th? That is 100% wrong.

 

[BensGrandad]

Just to clarify. You say that Rooney WOULD be allowed to take the 11th pen even though he has already taken, let's say, the 5th? That is 100% wrong.

T hat is what I am asking as the rules says a player can be changed at any time but then also says nobody can rake a 2nd until all Eligible players have taken one The only reference to eligibility is being on the pitch at the final whistle it doesnt cover a situation where a player is physically or medically unable. If it said you would forfeit that kick that would cover it but it doesnt.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Right so if the 11th kicker - let's say the goalkeeper gets injured by saving the previous penalty, and he can no longer play on, it would go back to the start, the first person who took the 1st penalty would go, in a cycle.
You can't just nominate a random player to take it in any given order.

Please don't be so bloody pedantic.

 

[Official Old Man]

Right so if the 11th kicker - let's say the goalkeeper gets injured by saving the previous penalty, and he can no longer play on, it would go back to the start, the first person who took the 1st penalty would go, in a cycle.
You can't just nominate a random player to take it in any given order.

Still not answered. So the final penalty would be taken by the first penalty taker, thus starting all over again. Argument here would be that the first kicker is undoubtedly a lot better than the 11th and the opposition would be up in arms. Also, once the 11 have kicked you can change the order second time around.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Still not answered. So the final penalty would be taken by the first penalty taker, thus starting all over again. Argument here would be that the first kicker is undoubtedly a lot better than the 11th and the opposition would be up in arms. Also, once the 11 have kicked you can change the order second time around.

You can't change the order if you go round again, for evidence watch any penalty shoot out where this happens. Recently this seasons F.A Cup:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30407763

But I'm afraid you are wrong about this.

If the keeper got injured, then I'm sorry but that's the way it is, it would go back to the first taker, tough shit for the team being up in arms about it; that's the law.

 

[McTavish]

Yes you can change the order after all eligible players have taken a kick - there is nothing in the laws to say you can't.

If the keeper is injured during the penalty kicks then he may be substituted but doesn't have to be.

All players on the field at the end of play are eligible and all must take a kick unless they become injured and physically incapable during the penalties.

In the specific situation of the CAN final if the keeper had not been able to take a kick either a substitute could come on and take his kick for him or one of the other ten other players could take the kick and no substitute would be allowed. This gives an advantage to the team kicking second as they can have an outfield player take a vital kick rather than the keeper but it is also a huge risk as if the keeper doesn't take the kick, there is no way that he would be allowed to go back in goal if the kick is missed and so the team would have to continue without a keeper.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Man utd v Real Madrid 10 all after 20 penalties. Where does it say LVG cannot tell Rooney to take the 11th kick and that De Gea must take it All it says is a player must be eligible and the ref notified. LVG deems De Gea not eligible as not able to kick and for the last 10 mins he has had to throw the ball out and couldnt move to face the penalties. Man U relied on somebody missing the goal altogether.

LVG wouldn't be able to deem De Gea illegible, that would have to be the referee. I can't see how in all likelihood the keeper could get so injured between saving a penalty and having to have his go that the ref would agree to it.