[Football] Ref blaming

[um bongo molongo]

Different times, different consequences. Go back to 1950, people might have been busy involving themselves in other aspects of societes and their lives. Move forward to 2022 with a degenerated population - and more so generation - force fed with social media. In newspaper days you'd read about a bad ref once, move on to other shit and get over it. Dumb Kid, 19, in our time could however engulf himself in hatred for the entire day, fuelling his anger, while also having a lot easier ways to access the ref and his/her family.

Of course it turns even more of a problem when it comes to leagues lower in the divisions and in youth football. At some point more and more refs are going to think "ok, I get £20 and if I make a bad decision I could have 15 young gangsters and their braindead parents, inspired by the Mous and Tuchels of the world, harassing me and my family online, or waiting for me at the parking lot after the game. Is it worth it?" and there are clear indications that a lot of these refs are reaching the conclusion that it just isn't worth it.

Your second paragraph is spot on imho. I reffed some very junior games a while back and carded every player who showed dissent, earning much ire from the sidelines. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to let some 10 or 11 year old speak back to me. The rules are there, the refs should be instructed and backed to use them. And that would hopefully show players and managers at all tiers what behaviour should be like.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Your second paragraph is spot on imho. I reffed some very junior games a while back and carded every player who showed dissent, earning much ire from the sidelines. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to let some 10 or 11 year old speak back to me. The rules are there, the refs should be instructed and backed to use them. And that would hopefully show players and managers at all tiers what behaviour should be like.

From experience I find explaining decisions to the kids help. I also used encourage them as well. A great tackle, a save or goal was always a good opportunity to praise good play. I used to find those that didn't speak as they reffed suffered the most.

 

[Wardy's twin]

As has been said by others, the visibility of ref errors is there for all to see because of the intense scrutiny brought about by TV indeed people at the televised live match can double check on line , in almost real-time that the ref has made the wrong decision. That isn't going to go away so the refs need support and VAR and goal line technology are tools that can give that support. In football VAR is positioned as a check on refs and whether they have made a clear MISTAKE in rugby its a decision support tool and that decision is then made public. The decision support tool could check the lines, not just the goal line, could check for off the ball incidents. That said refs don't help themselves , only one person appears not to have seen the foul on Welbeck and another example is that on Saturday Wilson should have been sent off for showing dissent twice when going off, the referees inaction in punishing him basically highlights the contempt players have for refs and then stimulates all the cheating and fouling.

 

[Weststander]

The combination of match day officials and VAR should be getting every key decision correct.

In the CL and 2021 Euros it seems to work well, not least because the match day officials are excellent.

It’s utterly ridiculous in the age of VAR that McTominay is swerving reds for hacking down opponents, that Romero didn’t receive a red for his cowardly hair pull. There is precedent with Huth getting a three match retro ban for yanking hair in 2016.

 

[Weststander]

There was no problem with VAR in the Euros or World Cup. Somehow the English leagues especially the PL want to mess it up. There is nothing wrong in asking a ref to look at a pitchside monitor, to check his decision or lack of it.

This.

 

[Swansman]

The combination of match day officials and VAR should be getting every key decision correct.

In the CL and 2021 Euros it seems to work well, not least because the match day officials are excellent.

It’s utterly ridiculous in the age of VAR that McTominay is swerving reds for hacking down opponents, that Romero didn’t receive a red for his cowardly hair pull. There is precedent with Huth getting a three match retro ban for yanking hair in 2016.

Yes, if you gather the best refs in the world (or Europe) then the level gets higher obviously. If you only pick the best in England, it won't reach the same level. Quite similar to how the Euros/CL would be a lot better football wise than the PL if only English players were allowed to play in the PL:

 

[Weststander]

Yes, if you gather the best refs in the world (or Europe) then the level gets higher obviously. If you only pick the best in England, it won't reach the same level. Quite similar to how the Euros/CL would be a lot better football wise than the PL if only English players were allowed to play in the PL:

Clattenburg was the last genuinely elite ref from these shores, as good as these brilliant refs I watch in the CL.

Such a shame when he went off to the Middle East.

Assertive (not bullied), not a homer, great knowledge of the laws in real time, simply correct and without the condescending arrogance of say Friend.

Standards have fallen here.

I rated Mike Dean …. heads for cover here

 

[drew]

Of course ref's make mistakes. However the Welbeck one was seen by those officials doing the VAR and still didn't act. There's no excuse for that. The commentators, the press, even Gallagher on Ref Watch said it was a penalty. That's the sort of mistakes I'm on about not simple errors.

I don't believe that the ref should be part of the post match interviews but I do think there should be open dialogue by the FA about how such decisions were made and if a mistake was made what steps are being made to get better. A ref is bound to miss things but people watching TV screens shouldn't.

Personally I'd like to see each manager given one review each half that they can use. It can be limited to a period of 20 seconds of play leading to a goal or a major incident such as a penalty incident. This could then be reviewed live with the ref and the VAR team. Whatever the outcome that review is used up. I'm sure that the chance to see incidents again, such as Welbeck's, would result in the correct decision. The pitch side screens should be located at two points around the pitch allowing the assistant a chance to be there and any player or official from any team encroach an area close to the ref and screen is booked.

VAR then only to be used for offsides and serious foul play.

A review sounds a good idea but let's be honest, John Brooks, the VAR, had numerous opportunities to review the Welbeck penalty and still decided it wasn't. Had he asked the ref to use the pitch side monitor I suspect it would have been given but he must have been so certain that it wasn't a penalty (bizarrely) that he didn't even suggest that. Yet I haven't heard one pundit, whether ex player or ref, agree with him!

 

[keaton]

Clattenburg was the last genuinely elite ref from these shores, as good as these brilliant refs I watch in the CL.

Such a shame when he went off to the Middle East.

Assertive (not bullied), not a homer, great knowledge of the laws in real time, simply correct and without the condescending arrogance of say Friend.

Standards have fallen here.

I rated Mike Dean …. heads for cover here

Mmm

https://www.football365.com/news/clattenburg-gloats-about-letting-spurs-self-destruct

 

[TugWilson]

Going to eat the sport from the inside.

Must be punished very harshly if there's going to be anyone at all willing to do the job in due time.

If you dive down the newspaper archives, one thing gets obvious: every referee in every country in every sport has been shite at least since Gutenberg invented the printing machine in 1450.

This strikes me as quite odd and makes me believe that it is really our perception of refereeing that is entirely ****ed up. We simply don't understand how difficult it is. A flaw in the human brain.

As such, you have to expect that common people for the next 500 years are also going to consider every referee as a shite one. That is fine I suppose, or rather: it is what it is.

But when players and managers puts all the blame on the referee after any game they didn't win, it fuels the situation. The Tuchels of the world are for whatever reason seen as people you should listen to, and so the fans do - and at some point or another it is going to end really, really badly as one of the hundreds of death threats top refs & their families recieve are going to turn into reality. At that point it is going to be very difficult to find people willing to do the job at any level.

I really hope the PL (and the EFL for that matter) goes further to protect the referees. Of course, some balanced criticism could be acceptable, but when managers and squads group up to do verbal gangbangs on the refs in the media after games, it is borderline the act of inciting violence towards the involved ref, and should be punished with a 10 game ban or similar.

Watching this **nt tierney AGAIN at the Pool ,dont ******* tell me refs need more respect !!!.

Just what particular flavour of stupid are you anyway? I havn`t enjoyed a game with the recent bunch of non playing turds ruining a game they either never played or were just not bloody good enough to play .

 

[Swansman]

Watching this **nt tierney AGAIN at the Pool ,dont ******* tell me refs need more respect !!!.

Just what particular flavour of stupid are you anyway? I havn`t enjoyed a game with the recent bunch of non playing turds ruining a game they either never played or were just not bloody good enough to play .

Did he make more mistakes than any of the players?

As for what "particular flavour of stupid" I am... the kind of flavour that occasionally leaves his house. Maybe you've heard of it.

 

[Springal]

Watching this **nt tierney AGAIN at the Pool ,dont ******* tell me refs need more respect !!!.

Just what particular flavour of stupid are you anyway? I havn`t enjoyed a game with the recent bunch of non playing turds ruining a game they either never played or were just not bloody good enough to play .

There’s no correlation being being good enough to play or good enough to referee you donut

 

[TugWilson]

There’s no correlation being being good enough to play or good enough to referee you donut

Ask 200m worldwide,see how many agree with you,you bagel

 

[Springal]

Ask 200m worldwide,see how many agree with you bagel

It literally has no correlation, completely different set of abilities

 

[TugWilson]

It literally has no correlation, completely different set of abilities

What like a ski-instructor teaching Physics ?

 

[Swansman]

Ask 200m worldwide,see how many agree with you,you bagel

Which 200m? Those in your UFO book circle?

I imagine most people are well aware that you could be a good ref without being a good player, and a good player without being a good ref.

 

[rool]

Did he make more mistakes than any of the players?

As for what "particular flavour of stupid" I am... the kind of flavour that occasionally leaves his house. Maybe you've heard of it.

Only to buy weed and put pizza boxes in the recycling bin I imagine.

 

[Doonhamer7]

So some thoughts need to adopt other sports use of etiquette and technology.
1. limit each captain to say 3no. var calls a game (knowing football they’ll get round this) as they do in cricket / tennis
2.ex-professionals to be part of VAR team looking for ‘professionalism’ in
3. yellow card = 10min sin bin as rugby does
4. Only captain to speak to ref, straight yellow
5. post game yellows - ref should be able to re-watch game and offer re-assessment (add to sin bin) both add or remove cards. Anyone with a yellow misses next 10mins they play (imagine starting game with 9 players)
6. Discipline to be taken into account at end of season points (something statistical like a 75% standard deviation from average gives say +/- 5 points for clean / dirty
7. Get game to two 30min live play (removes time wasting like Wilson on Saturday)
8. “Live sub” whilst ‘injured players’ are treated on pitch (except say in box) - game goes on around physio, live sub goes off once injured player is back on feet.
9. Penalties to be replaced by ice hockey / NASL version. Player gets to run at keeper from say edge of centre circle, can shot from far out, dribble, chip and keeper has to decide whether to stay on line or come out - much more exciting
10. And in words of Bill Shankly if your not interfering in play why are you on the pitch so gets rid of that uncertainty

 

[TugWilson]

Did he make more mistakes than any of the players?

As for what "particular flavour of stupid" I am... the kind of flavour that occasionally leaves his house. Maybe you've heard of it.

You attack me on a personal level , about something i wrote in good faith to someone else on the Mental Health thread .I know people like you ,before i learnt to control my emotions a little better i used to end up in a lot of trouble ,but not anywhere near as much trouble as you would have been in with me .

Anyone who stoops as low as you have just done needs to have been where i have, and sometimes still go back to mentally, to understand what type of COWARD you must be to make that comment .

 

[Swansman]

Only to buy weed and put pizza boxes in the recycling bin I imagine.

I'm really not the recycling kind of guy.