Re: Closure of NSC ticket exchange

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Now it's muddied in football becuase of the law but as we've discussed before the intention of that Act was to stop away fans getting hold of tickets, not to allow clubs a way of maximising revenue.

It is one of the intentions of the Act for sure; another, particularly from a football perspective, is to facilitate identification of the person actually attending the game - n'est ce pas?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

If you take a look carefully, we now have a TICKETS WANTED section on NSC, this means that if someone wants to buy a ticket they can express their interest. If people conduct their business by PM and/or phone this is strictly illegal, but I suspect The Sweeney won't be breaking down your door.

There is no longer a TICKETS FOR SALE section, so no one can advertise tickets and therefore NSC is not breaking the law.

You appear to have contradicted yourself.

 

[Rugrat]

Ok, I'm not going to pursue it. Re your last sentence, it's not so much the squashing of the Exchange that I'm moaning about, as I said I never used it and I quite accept it was technically against the T&Cs. What pissed me off is the fact the club felt it necessary to take action against a single channel that was at most responsible for a dozen or so transactions a game. The T&Cs will still be breached by myself and others as we swap tickets privately (as we always have done) and this decision will make the club at best £70 or so per match in legitimate sales from people who really want to attend and had previously used NSC. The rest won't bother. In return it has cost the club some goodwill. They (and you) obviously think it's worth it but I don't. But we've been here before and I know you don't agree!

Too right. The club are nickel and diming this issue. If it were any other sort of commercial business pi$$ed off customers could vote with their feet. But it isn't, and the club know they can throw their weight around and we aren't about to go support another team. It's all wrong and it's nothing to do with applying the T&C's

 

[El Presidente]

You appear to have contradicted yourself.

The person offering the ticket is breaking the law, not NSC.

 

[rool]

The person offering the ticket is breaking the law, not NSC.

I think he is implying that NSC is facilitating the transaction via the PM in the same way that the exchange forum did.

 

[El Presidente]

I think he is implying that NSC is facilitating the transaction via the PM in the same way that the exchange forum did.

The nature of a PM is that it is a private message in the same way that a phone call is, we are trying to do the best for NSC members without breaking the law, shame that the club does not share the same attitude.

 

[rool]

The nature of a PM is that it is a private message in the same way that a phone call is, we are trying to do the best for NSC members without breaking the law, shame that the club does not share the same attitude.

Yes exactly, however, the club know's where to come when they need a campaign or signatures done on their behalf.

 

[El Presidente]

Yes exactly, however, the club know's where to come when they need a campaign or signatures done on their behalf.

I agree with you entirely.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Re: Closure of NSC ticket exchange

The person offering the ticket is breaking the law, not NSC.

But when a poster offered tickets on the exchange it wasn't NSC that was doing it, but the poster. NSC was just facilitating the exchange, just as it would be if someone does it over pm

The only difference is that it takes place in private.

I'm genuinely puzzled why the mods won't confirm that it was the club who asked for this.

 

[s5.bha]

Re: Closure of NSC ticket exchange

Yes exactly, however, the club know's where to come when they need a campaign or signatures done on their behalf.

Spot on.

 

[Steve.S]

Because the wider interpretation (and for wider I mean ticketing across lots of sports, events etc) of the ticketing terms and conditions is that they are unlawful. Specifically that its not reasonable in a contract for you to restrict a person's ability to resell their own property. Ticketing companies get away with it either because people don't challenge them or that they have no means on enforcing it.

Now it's muddied in football becuase of the law but as we've discussed before the intention of that Act was to stop away fans getting hold of tickets, not to allow clubs a way of maximising revenue.

I do not think that it has anything to do with the law. The club have the right to refuse anyone entry if they so wish. If they sell a ST and put T&CS, and they find some else using the ticket other then the STH, they can if they so wish remove that ST from the person.Are you saying the club do not have a right to refuse entry?. When at the end of the day the club can remove your ST and refuse you entry and their is nothing you can do about it. People can make their own decision about who and what they want to do with their ST, however it's not the long arm of the law they need to worry about. As long as people are sensible and keep things low key, I am sure people will continue to get hold of Tickets. Just one point about your ST and about selling it on, I think you will find people tend to buy tickets for events and then sell them on for a profit. The club sell us ST at reduced rates as an incentive for paying up front, therefore they could argue that you are under cutting their business as you are selling you ticket cheaper then match day tickets,

 

[Rugrat]

Yes exactly, however, the club know's where to come when they need a campaign or signatures done on their behalf.

Absolutely ... bloody good point

I do not think that it has anything to do with the law. The club have the right to refuse anyone entry if they so wish. If they sell a ST and put T&CS, and they find some else using the ticket other then the STH, they can if they so wish remove that ST from the person.Are you saying the club do not have a right to refuse entry?. When at the end of the day the club can remove your ST and refuse you entry and their is nothing you can do about it. People can make their own decision about who and what they want to do with their ST, however it's not the long arm of the law they need to worry about. As long as people are sensible and keep things low key, I am sure people will continue to get hold of Tickets. Just one point about your ST and about selling it on, I think you will find people tend to buy tickets for events and then sell them on for a profit. The club sell us ST at reduced rates as an incentive for paying up front, therefore they could argue that you are under cutting their business as you are selling you ticket cheaper then match day tickets,

Edit: Actually deleted my reply, looking at your posts on this thread can only think you are a lurker

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I do not think that it has anything to do with the law. The club have the right to refuse anyone entry if they so wish. If they sell a ST and put T&CS, and they find some else using the ticket other then the STH, they can if they so wish remove that ST from the person.Are you saying the club do not have a right to refuse entry?. When at the end of the day the club can remove your ST and refuse you entry and their is nothing you can do about it. People can make their own decision about who and what they want to do with their ST, however it's not the long arm of the law they need to worry about. As long as people are sensible and keep things low key, I am sure people will continue to get hold of Tickets. Just one point about your ST and about selling it on, I think you will find people tend to buy tickets for events and then sell them on for a profit. The club sell us ST at reduced rates as an incentive for paying up front, therefore they could argue that you are under cutting their business as you are selling you ticket cheaper then match day tickets,

There's an argument that the T&C's of the contract you enter into are unfair thus making the contract null and void. Of course this would need to be tested in court. I know of one person who was banned and only got it overturned after the club looked at the CCTV pictures. They only did this after lots of pressure from him and didn't refund him his missed matches.

If I had a season ticket - i.e. a contract for which I pay the club money and in return they grant me the right to watch a match - and it was removed from me without any legal framework banning me from watching football I'd be suing them in the Small Claims Court for breach of contract. The club have to understand they are a business NOT the police ( although Hebberd is ex-police so I can understand where they get the attitude from ).

 

[Da Man Clay]

But when a poster offered tickets on the exchange it wasn't NSC that was doing it, but the poster. NSC was just facilitating the exchange, just as it would be if someone does it over pm

The only difference is that it takes place in private.

I'm genuinely puzzled why the mods won't confirm that it was the club who asked for this.

Because allowing the person selling to advertise is facilitating and within the act. Allowing people to advertise their requirement for one is not. If people want to conduct the illegal agreement behind closed doors, it is not NSCs problem. The joy of the nuances of law.

 

[Steve.S]

There's an argument that the T&C's of the contract you enter into are unfair thus making the contract null and void. Of course this would need to be tested in court. I know of one person who was banned and only got it overturned after the club looked at the CCTV pictures. They only did this after lots of pressure from him and didn't refund him his missed matches.

If I had a season ticket - i.e. a contract for which I pay the club money and in return they grant me the right to watch a match - and it was removed from me without any legal framework banning me from watching football I'd be suing them in the Small Claims Court for breach of contract. The club have to understand they are a business NOT the police ( although Hebberd is ex-police so I can understand where they get the attitude from ).

Where you argument would fall down, is that you sold your ticket, therefore what right do you have? Someone else would be using your ticket

 

[Working class pride]

What do they do about people that share season tickets? Reason I ask is that people have done that for generations and I think the club even advertised that people might want to do that. I thought about it myself before I decided I wouldn't get down to Sussex enough.

 

[Steve.S]

What do they do about people that share season tickets? Reason I ask is that people have done that for generations and I think the club even advertised that people might want to do that. I thought about it myself before I decided I wouldn't get down to Sussex enough.

I asked the club when I got mine, I have children and they share it out. The club told me that is ok as long as the child fits into the age bracket. I really do not think the club have a problem with people sharing amongst friends. Although that may change in the future, who knows. The trouble was last season a lot of people were getting tickets reprinted, which would mean that people are not necessary sharing with close friends, add to that, a website advertising tickets for sale. Then the club had to act. The first part was to make it just as expensive to get a ticket reprinted and now to stop people openly selling tickets. I know a few people who share their season ticket and because they use the smart card, they do not draw attention to themselves. I would think that as long as people keep it private, it will go on.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I do not think that it has anything to do with the law. The club have the right to refuse anyone entry if they so wish. If they sell a ST and put T&CS, and they find some else using the ticket other then the STH, they can if they so wish remove that ST from the person.Are you saying the club do not have a right to refuse entry?. When at the end of the day the club can remove your ST and refuse you entry and their is nothing you can do about it. People can make their own decision about who and what they want to do with their ST, however it's not the long arm of the law they need to worry about. As long as people are sensible and keep things low key, I am sure people will continue to get hold of Tickets. Just one point about your ST and about selling it on, I think you will find people tend to buy tickets for events and then sell them on for a profit. The club sell us ST at reduced rates as an incentive for paying up front, therefore they could argue that you are under cutting their business as you are selling you ticket cheaper then match day tickets,

A company can't just put any terms and conditions they like on a contract. Say for instance they put a condition on the ticket that they were allowed to come and punch you in the face at half time or put a paper bag over your head. Would that be an acceptable condition?

Conditions have to be reasonable. Now this hasn't been tested much by the courts but the general principles of contract law is that any condition that prevents you from selling on your own property is not reasonable.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I do not think that it has anything to do with the law. The club have the right to refuse anyone entry if they so wish. If they sell a ST and put T&CS, and they find some else using the ticket other then the STH, they can if they so wish remove that ST from the person.Are you saying the club do not have a right to refuse entry?. When at the end of the day the club can remove your ST and refuse you entry and their is nothing you can do about it. People can make their own decision about who and what they want to do with their ST, however it's not the long arm of the law they need to worry about. As long as people are sensible and keep things low key, I am sure people will continue to get hold of Tickets. Just one point about your ST and about selling it on, I think you will find people tend to buy tickets for events and then sell them on for a profit. The club sell us ST at reduced rates as an incentive for paying up front, therefore they could argue that you are under cutting their business as you are selling you ticket cheaper then match day tickets,

Can I just ask, are you in any way employed by the club or connected to someone who is?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Because allowing the person selling to advertise is facilitating and within the act. Allowing people to advertise their requirement for one is not. If people want to conduct the illegal agreement behind closed doors, it is not NSCs problem. The joy of the nuances of law.

My argument though is that "NSC" has always acted as a facilitator. The ticket exchange involved "posters" offering and asking for tickets not "NSC". NSC was just the medium that they used to conduct the transaction. This will still be true if it done using the PM system.

I admit that if they don't use the PM system to conduct the trade then NSC is in the clear but if they do, then there isn't really a difference.