Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
Personally, I think the DS is there to develop players to be sold on to provide funds for signings the manager wants.
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Radical changes in DS coaching?
- Thread starter TheDuke
- Start date
Personally, I think the DS is there to develop players to be sold on to provide funds for signings the manager wants.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,222
A lot of the lads in the current development squad are the ones who would have first been picked out to join the Albion's youth sides when they were eleven or twelve, so they've been with the club for years. Those ones probably spent several of their formative football years with Albion during the Withdean era. Back then, we struggled to attract the best players. The best kids back in those days, the ones who had their pick of clubs, would often have gone elsewhere and Albion would have had to select the promising ones from the rest.
Since moving to the Amex- and, just as relevant, the new training ground- the appeal of the club has increased infinitely, and players who might previously have gone to London sides or Southampton etc, are now interested in joining the Albion. That's only happened in the last three years or so, therefore these boys- the cream of the crop- won't start to filter through the system for a few years yet, once they come of age.
I'm amazed that anybody thinks we're going to suddenly turn the OK-but-not-brilliant 17yr olds who've been with us since they were 11 into world beaters simply because we have some nice pitches and lovely changing rooms now. Yes, you can coach them, but there needs to be the raw talent in the first place, and in previous years, the really talented ones ended up at other clubs. This is all about being able to select the finest players to start with, and we won't see the benefit of that until the ones who were recruited post-Lancing reach eighteen (or whatever). The current lot are playing against established Premier League academies. They'll learn from that tough experience, even if not many of them ever make it as professionals: then perhaps in three or four years time, we'll start to see some real gems coming through.
Since moving to the Amex- and, just as relevant, the new training ground- the appeal of the club has increased infinitely, and players who might previously have gone to London sides or Southampton etc, are now interested in joining the Albion. That's only happened in the last three years or so, therefore these boys- the cream of the crop- won't start to filter through the system for a few years yet, once they come of age.
I'm amazed that anybody thinks we're going to suddenly turn the OK-but-not-brilliant 17yr olds who've been with us since they were 11 into world beaters simply because we have some nice pitches and lovely changing rooms now. Yes, you can coach them, but there needs to be the raw talent in the first place, and in previous years, the really talented ones ended up at other clubs. This is all about being able to select the finest players to start with, and we won't see the benefit of that until the ones who were recruited post-Lancing reach eighteen (or whatever). The current lot are playing against established Premier League academies. They'll learn from that tough experience, even if not many of them ever make it as professionals: then perhaps in three or four years time, we'll start to see some real gems coming through.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The team are in the last 16 of the youth League cup playing Everton tonight. The team includes the two newest members.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/albion/14263697.Walton_and_Rea_playing_for_Albion_under_21s/?ref=twt
http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/albion/14263697.Walton_and_Rea_playing_for_Albion_under_21s/?ref=twt
el punal
Well-known member
Unfortunately with some people everything has to be instant.
Thats quite a misrepresentation of what actually happening.
I agree that the training centre is world class and must to a point help in retention and recruitment especially for the first team, it offers an insight into the clubs ambition and resources, of course the only problem is that the calibre of player whether that is development squad or the first team needed to deliver genuine progress are probably being courted by others with similar or in some cases better training facilities.
So I do agree that the facility is fantastic but it has only helped us cement our place as Championship standard with Championship recruiting power, the bigger clubs are still the main powerhouses and will always recruit above us if they want to.
The aspiration should be that we are nurturing and developing our own young players from the age of twelve, but it is obvious to me that there is a dominant recruitment department implementing a policy that is flawed.
It isnt a reflection on development if you recruit young players either from Ireland, Scandinavia or released Premier League clubs especially as it seems they are no better than the talent you already have, development remains the 'magic bullet' I am not sure we either have the coaches or even the intention to do it properly
We will not be trumping Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. for young talent anywhere in the world right now, its 'play acting' at being a world class recruitment club when actually we simply cannot compete to get the genuine young world beaters, its just vanity and to the detriment to those young players that are already in the system, so we end up recruiting and releasing in equal measure without any real progress.
The key is on the ground development, with young players, ideally that have been in the system from say the age of 12 years old but it takes coaches with imagination, skill and experience and I am not sure we have it at present.
We find ourselves in a bizarre position that those with talent already committed to the system for some years are soon disadvantaged by casually being dismissed for another signing from elsewhere, purely driven by vested interest.
For the record Edna the profile of the Arsenal and tonights Everton squads do not bear you out on who is within these squads, the team that is losing regularly is a team full of people recruited quite recently and from some distance.....
Versus Arsenal
GK: Walton ( Plymouth bought £200 000+)
GK: Doherty ( Irish brought in )
D: Hunt ( Southend but arguably an Academy Product )
D: Barnett ( Irish brought in )
D: Dallison ( Arsenal releasee )
MF: Ward ( Bought undisclosed fee )
MF: Hutchinson ( Irish brought in )
MF: Molumby ( Irish brought in )
MF: Starkey ( Chelsea releasee )
MF: Harper ( Real Madrid undisclosed fee )
F: Tilley ( Academy Product )
F: Bjordal ( Norway undisclosed fee )
F: Ayunga ( Undisclosed fee )
F: Deen ( Academy Product )
Squad versus Everton
GK: Walton ( Plymouth bought £200 000+)
GK: Doherty ( Irish brought in )
D: Hunt ( Irsh brought in )
D: Barnett ( Irish brought in )
D: Barclay ( Man City releasee )
D: Rea ( Academy Product )
D: Dallison ( Arsenal releasee )
MF: Ward ( Bought undisclosed fee )
MF: Hutchinson ( Irish brought in )
MF: Molumby ( Irish brought in )
MF: Starkey ( Chelsea releasee )
MF: Harper ( Real Madrid undisclosed fee )
F: Tilley ( Academy Product )
F: Bjordal ( Norway undisclosed fee )
F: Ayunga ( Undisclosed fee )
F: Kandi ( Chelsea releasee )
F: Tighe ( Academy Product )
F: Deen ( Academy Product )
Likely Deen and Tighe will not be involved.
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Building a decent footballing infrastructure from under 11s through to under 21s takes about 10 years to put into place. If it is instant gratification you require I would suggest you try a ''sex shop''
Whats with this time stuff, Brighton has had an active 'academy system' for 35 years.
The buildings are better, but can we yet emulate Ian Chapman, John Byrne. Russell Bromage, Dean Wilkins etc. as a coaching pathway for a young player ??
Can we emulate a quarter final FA Youth Cup run in 2005 under Wilkins beating Chelsea, Blackburn and only going out at Newcastle on penalties, we havent won a single FA Youth Cup game in 4 seasons ??
When was the last win, Aston Villa at the Amex? in 2011/12
We've had a big step up to make and I think some of our recruitment has been to help us reach par so to speak. They'd never say it, but it feels a little bit like some of the signings have been there to make up the numbers a bit. They're giving these lads the opportunity and it's a cliche but it's up to them to take it. We're certainly not the only side who recruit players, our international flavour is quite similar to Stoke. They've signed the likes of Verlinden, Molina, Telford, Waddington, Moha, Teixeira for their U21s.
The results can also be quite deceiving, when we actually won a game, incidently against Stoke, we had Maenpaa, Ince, Holla, Manu, Forster-Caskey and March playing. Man Utd the other night had Memphis, Keane, Powell as they thrashed Norwich 7-0 but Norwich had an U16 playing for them. Teams can be be quite transitional, U18s/16s playing due to 21s being injured, in the first team or out on loan. The opposition can be overly strong if they've got first teamers in need of a game or returning from injury. We've had JFC and March graduate early, Glen Rea's been out on loan, Hutchinson missed most of the season with injury, Hambo's been injured all season but I was impressed by him during his brief cameo at the Amex. We've struggled for goals but I don't think we're a bad side.
We've got a bunch of decent youngsters in the U18s and below who will be coming through in the coming years. Maguire-Drew has been excellent for the U18s and we've got a number of youth internationals who will hopefully continue to develop well. I'm a big fan of Jayson Molumby, been really impressed by him. He's a first year u18, only just sneaks into that age group, so very young and he's been getting regular game time with our U21s.
The results can also be quite deceiving, when we actually won a game, incidently against Stoke, we had Maenpaa, Ince, Holla, Manu, Forster-Caskey and March playing. Man Utd the other night had Memphis, Keane, Powell as they thrashed Norwich 7-0 but Norwich had an U16 playing for them. Teams can be be quite transitional, U18s/16s playing due to 21s being injured, in the first team or out on loan. The opposition can be overly strong if they've got first teamers in need of a game or returning from injury. We've had JFC and March graduate early, Glen Rea's been out on loan, Hutchinson missed most of the season with injury, Hambo's been injured all season but I was impressed by him during his brief cameo at the Amex. We've struggled for goals but I don't think we're a bad side.
We've got a bunch of decent youngsters in the U18s and below who will be coming through in the coming years. Maguire-Drew has been excellent for the U18s and we've got a number of youth internationals who will hopefully continue to develop well. I'm a big fan of Jayson Molumby, been really impressed by him. He's a first year u18, only just sneaks into that age group, so very young and he's been getting regular game time with our U21s.
I know a 17 year old Irish international who plays for Southampton U18 / U21. I was talking to him a little while back about the Irish age-group lads at the Albion, and he was full of praise for Molumby. Reckons he is a real talent and in particular 'incredibly hard working'.
Not with ''state of the art facilities'' they havn't though.
Yeah he's good. Saw him make his 21s debut (I think) at Enfield in pre-season and he scored a cracker from 25 yards and put himself about well. Then saw him play for the 21s against Derby at the training ground, lost 4-0 but he didn't look out of place at all.
I've just been scrolling through tonight's Everton under 21's side.
Naturally I was hoping to see some kind of Galaticos set up, but I couldn't have been more wrong.
With the exception of £500k Rodriguez from River Plate, the Everton youngsters are in the main local lads, or 'undisclosed fees' from the likes of Bury.
Many have loaned out 1st team experience, with a couple representing the first team in friendlies and/or cup games.
Tonight Albion team with Walton, Bjordal, Harper and assorted other 'undisclosed fees' has cost considerably more to assemble than Everton's.
Naturally I was hoping to see some kind of Galaticos set up, but I couldn't have been more wrong.
With the exception of £500k Rodriguez from River Plate, the Everton youngsters are in the main local lads, or 'undisclosed fees' from the likes of Bury.
Many have loaned out 1st team experience, with a couple representing the first team in friendlies and/or cup games.
Tonight Albion team with Walton, Bjordal, Harper and assorted other 'undisclosed fees' has cost considerably more to assemble than Everton's.
Yep, then it went Stoke, Everton, Derby and Notts Forest, all losses, losing can happen but the FA Youth cup is the real test when teams put the best in their age group, irrespective of that players status, we competed very successfully in 2005/06 but have been unable to win a game since the new academy regime, recruited by Burke by the way
portslade seagull
Well-known member
It's a long term thing. Ideally getting tomorrow's players means they are u10 at best so a few yrs yet
West Ham was the previous year to Stoke ??
I was more talking about the new regime, it was then that the recruitment policy seemed to change regarding young players.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Time they were SACKED
I remember watching our youth team play Everton at Goodison, I did note that their coaches were Kevin Sheedy and Duncan Ferguson and ours was Vic Bragg and Simon Rusk, accepting that many clubs might struggle to compare favourably, it did make me think.....
It would be a brave/stupid Academy manager or particular smartarsed recruitment manager to volunteer a 'untried new player' from say Scandinavia, USA or Ireland prompting one of their young players that they have encouraged, supported and coached from the age 12 years to be moved aside in their place, what do you think Unsworth, Sheedy or Ferguson would say to that.
It was. But we beat Villa then lost to West Ham. I was just pointing it out.