[News] Pub help crazy government decisons

[Neville's Breakfast]

This lockdown is bullshit on so many levels.

Why can't pubs sell take away booze? Why can't gyms can't open when they clearly have mental and physical health benefits. Kids can't play sport but can go to school? Golf and tennis?

If all of the above spread the virus show us the stats? How dare you shut down peoples lives and not share correct information. It's beyond me.

I read an article saying that gyms are the new nightclubs. Maybe that explains that one.

 

[n1 gull]

I read an article saying that gyms are the new nightclubs. Maybe that explains that one.

I don't even know what that means?

If you want to shut down business's you must have data. You need to show your workings. Prove they spread the virus.

This isn't too much to ask for if you decide to shut down people's livelihoods and affect peoples health, both physical and mental

 

[essbee1]

Pubs make more on food than the booze so it might actually be better for them financially.

Rubbish.

 

[drew]

I don't even know what that means?

If you want to shut down business's you must have data. You need to show your workings. Prove they spread the virus.

This isn't too much to ask for if you decide to shut down people's livelihoods and affect peoples health, both physical and mental

So you think the government should go through every single type of industry and the specific data for each and then treat everything on a case by case basis. Meanwhile, hospital admissions and patients using ventilated beds are going through the roof.

 

[BNthree]

Assuming the no takeaway booze thing is to try to stop buying and hanging around drinking. Given it is now November I doubt there will be much of that going on in the dark evenings. Really silly rule. Allow them to do off sales and sell the stock they have.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

So you think the government should go through every single type of industry and the specific data for each and then treat everything on a case by case basis. Meanwhile, hospital admissions and patients using ventilated beds are going through the roof.

Yes, yes they should.

 

[Bozza]

If you want to shut down business's you must have data. You need to show your workings. Prove they spread the virus.

This isn't too much to ask for if you decide to shut down people's livelihoods and affect peoples health, both physical and mental

This virus spreads when people are close together, particularly indoors, particularly if poorly ventilated.

Any space where people are mixing closely for periods of time will lead to the virus spreading, it's as simple as that.

If we wanted to stop the spread of the virus completely, we'd all be locked up Wuhan-style, with food parcels dropped off every now and again. We don't want to do that though so, instead, it has been determined that a range of settings will close in order to enable our high priority settings, educational, to remain open.

That's where science meets the pragmatism of political decision-making.

(Note: I'm not saying this is right or trying to justify the choices made, just trying to explain them)

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Pubs are now allowed to sell takeaway beer if they have an off sales license:

twitter thread outlining the ins and outs below:
https://twitter.com/UKHospKate/status/1323684311023968257?s=19

All pubs have off sale license, that changed 3 decades ago.

 

[n1 gull]

So you think the government should go through every single type of industry and the specific data for each and then treat everything on a case by case basis. Meanwhile, hospital admissions and patients using ventilated beds are going through the roof.

Yes that is exactly what they should do.

 

[PTC Gull]

Rubbish.

Appreciate your response very informative.....

However, having been bought up in a pub and watching and learning from my parents, I know that the catering side of the business had bigger margins than the alcohol side of the business.
Admittedly this was in the 70's and although pubs were 'tied" to breweries like Watneys & Fremlins etc. I am sure its more difficult now for pub owners to make a decent margin on booze due to the ridiculous business restrictions placed on tenants by the chain owners.
If you have more modern evidence to the contrary then I am happy to learn.

 

[n1 gull]

This virus spreads when people are close together, particularly indoors, particularly if poorly ventilated.

Any space where people are mixing closely for periods of time will lead to the virus spreading, it's as simple as that.

If we wanted to stop the spread of the virus completely, we'd all be locked up Wuhan-style, with food parcels dropped off every now and again. We don't want to do that though so, instead, it has been determined that a range of settings will close in order to enable our high priority settings, educational, to remain open.

That's where science meets the pragmatism of political decision-making.

(Note: I'm not saying this is right or trying to justify the choices made, just trying to explain them)

Why then shutdown golf and Tennis?

We have local health inspectors if gyms are not well ventilated or there is a local outbreak of course deal with the situation. Shutting down gyms in a blanket authoritarian way in my opinion will do more harm than good. Again, if there is conclusive proof they were spreading the virus I would be convinced no problem.

If only there was something that could track who has the virus and where they caught it?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Appreciate your response very informative.....

However, having been bought up in a pub and watching and learning from my parents, I know that the catering side of the business had bigger margins than the alcohol side of the business.
Admittedly this was in the 70's and although pubs were 'tied" to breweries like Watneys & Fremlins etc. I am sure its more difficult now for pub owners to make a decent margin on booze due to the ridiculous business restrictions placed on tenants by the chain owners.
If you have more modern evidence to the contrary then I am happy to learn.

Slightly blinkered as not all pubs are tenanted so free of tie has a very different cost base. Gross profit should be roughly the same between wet and dry. Net will always be lower on dry. A very hard business to make a serious profit from all the same, without what’s happened.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Why then shutdown golf and Tennis?

We have local health inspectors if gyms are not well ventilated or there is a local outbreak of course deal with the situation. Shutting down gyms in a blanket authoritarian way in my opinion will do more harm than good. Again, if there is conclusive proof they were spreading the virus I would be convinced no problem.

If only there was something that could track who has the virus and where they caught it?

I agree with you but as Bozza said he was trying to explain the ‘rationale’....even some of it appears irrational

 

[PTC Gull]

Slightly blinkered as not all pubs are tenanted so free of tie has a very different cost base. Gross profit should be roughly the same between wet and dry. Net will always be lower on dry. A very hard business to make a serious profit from all the same, without what’s happened.

Thanks and appreciate you opinion with which I would agree with as I forgot the free of tie part.

 

[n1 gull]

I agree with you but as Bozza said he was trying to explain the ‘rationale’....even some of it appears irrational

I understand the rationale but as you say it's irrational and that make my head want to explode

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I agree with you but as Bozza said he was trying to explain the ‘rationale’....even some of it appears irrational

Even if you don’t do anything to adjust the shut down, they should have solid data on the areas for lifting it.

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

Post caveat: The %'s used below are not representative of real numbers - I'm just using them as numbers to rationalise stuff.

For me its all about contacts, and priorities. The majority seem to regard education as last to shut down, so to keep these open, the choice seems to be to shut everything else down.

When you get into arguments about whether it is mad to shut golf down whilst schools are still open, it is not about this. Everyone agrees that 2 people normally 10's of metres apart on a windy day in Sussex are less risky than 30 kids in a classroom. I don't think the debate is about that. If 50% of social transmission is through schools, and you dont want to shut schools down, then you have to shut the other 50% of remaining transmission routes down, whether each individual route contributes 0.5% (maybe golf) or 1% (maybe tennis), or 15% (maybe snail racing).

It feels harsh on the golfers. It feels harsh that kids can play sport at school, but not at a weekend, but in totality, the number of possible transmission routes are less if they don't play sport at the weekend.

I don't advocate either side in this argument, but I understand the rationale for why golf (and other rationally safe activities) are being shutdown. As a result there are political decisions to then be taken on how to support people affected by these decisions, but that is another discussion at a thread near you.

 

[jessiejames]

So you think the government should go through every single type of industry and the specific data for each and then treat everything on a case by case basis. Meanwhile, hospital admissions and patients using ventilated beds are going through the roof.

Depends on where you are and who you listen to. To much conflicting data, 1 hospital reporting of only having a couple of ICU beds available, yet another within a 10 mile radius reporting as being empty.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Thanks and appreciate you opinion with which I would agree with as I forgot the free of tie part.

That’s ok, as someone who’s owned 4 pubs, 2 lease, 1 free and 1 tenanted, I can give an example of each in their cost base.

Simple example is a firkin of ale would cost £90 free trade and the very same would be £160 tied. So you’re right in what you posted. This shows a free of tie outlet can make a lot more.

I ran my own licensing consultancy for a number of years and now I’m a quality manager for a major brewer so have seen it from nearly all sides.

Without COVID a pub is the last thing I’d advice anyone to take on, now I’d run for the hills.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Post caveat: The %'s used below are not representative of real numbers - I'm just using them as numbers to rationalise stuff.

For me its all about contacts, and priorities. The majority seem to regard education as last to shut down, so to keep these open, the choice seems to be to shut everything else down.

When you get into arguments about whether it is mad to shut golf down whilst schools are still open, it is not about this. Everyone agrees that 2 people normally 10's of metres apart on a windy day in Sussex are less risky than 30 kids in a classroom. I don't think the debate is about that. If 50% of social transmission is through schools, and you dont want to shut schools down, then you have to shut the other 50% of remaining transmission routes down, whether each individual route contributes 0.5% (maybe golf) or 1% (maybe tennis), or 15% (maybe snail racing).

It feels harsh on the golfers. It feels harsh that kids can play sport at school, but not at a weekend, but in totality, the number of possible transmission routes are less if they don't play sport at the weekend.

I don't advocate either side in this argument, but I understand the rationale for why golf (and other rationally safe activities) are being shutdown. As a result there are political decisions to then be taken on how to support people affected by these decisions, but that is another discussion at a thread near you.

You make a good point but many see the education side that apart from those in schools, kids are holed up in halls of residence or shared accommodation, doing very little in the way of learning other than distant computer work, shagging and partying, spreading the virus.