Poll: British, English, Sussex or don't care?

[The Spanish]

I maintain that you can't be proud to be from somewhere, it's completely illogical, and if you are you probably don't understand the meaning of "proud".

edit: I see [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] got there before me.

Having said that, I love Brighton, and Sussex, and England, and Britain, and Europe, and the Earth... and I don't like the current wave of divisiveness.

or indeed, the meaning of 'to be from', in anything less than an utterly literal sense.

 

[Notters]

relax about it.

I think that's what we are doing. Why the need for divisiveness?

 

[The Spanish]

I think that's what we are doing. Why the need for divisiveness?

why is discussing if you are proud of your background, or asking for a definition of what you feel that background is, divisive

 

[Simster]

So do I, especially hearing statements like that from guilty posh boys like yourself.

Don't be ridiculous, bushy. The fact that we can be objective about our country's pitfalls is what separates us from banana republics where they're only ever proud of the weather - no need for you to throw a hissy fit just because someone who isn't working class says something negative about the UK.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

thats ridiculous. why try to derail the argument by saying its a quirk of fate where you were born in terms of geography. of course thats a fact. but the question of belonging to a culture, and society, that is markedly different from others, creates an association whether you like it or not. and the question is do you like it, or not?

you might think you are Mr Euro and see no differences at all between anyone, and claim to have no more common ground with someone from England, Germany or Timbuktu, but thats just a stance. But its really not true is it? admitting that doesnt make you less progressive or worldly, in fact the opposite. relax about it.

I really am quite relaxed thank you. Are you?

 

[Husty]

Eh.

I think it's always worth comparing this data to data from other countries. What do people in France and Germany think of their nation? What do people in Sweden think of their nation? How do we compare to Americans? What about the North Koreans or the Chinese?

I think it's a POSITIVE thing that many people are not proud of the country, shows that we know there is plenty we could be doing better and we all have ideas of what that might be. Better than thinking all is well with the world when it isn't. I think in any sane world response to such a question is always going to be poor.

Only thing of interest really is how it compares to other nations. I reckon in America it's really high, upwards of 70%, but does that make us a worse nation than America? If you ask me it just shows a much higher level of naivety. They have much higher rates of poverty than our nation and I certainly wouldn't want to live there when it came down to it. What about in a nation like Switzerland or Sweden which are regularly held up as nations with high levels of freedom and living standards, are they all much more proud of their nations than us and all a lot happier? I wouldn't be surprised if a poll there came out similar to us.

60% Proud to be German: http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/757-where-germans-dare

 

[mikeyjh]

thats ridiculous. why try to derail the argument by saying its a quirk of fate where you were born in terms of geography. of course thats a fact. but the question of belonging to a culture, and society, that is markedly different from others, creates an association whether you like it or not. and the question is do you like it, or not?

you might think you are Mr Euro and see no differences at all between anyone, and claim to have no more common ground with someone from England, Germany or Timbuktu, but thats just a stance. But its really not true is it? admitting that doesnt make you less progressive or worldly, in fact the opposite. relax about it.

In fairness, while the poll asks that question, the text asks 'Are you proud', and many will debate whether you can be prod of a quirk of fate.

With regard to your point of culture and society - I think that's where people take some issue, and the smaller the locale you're referring to, the more absurd (IMO) it is to claim that that culture/society is markedly different to others. To suggest that, for instance, people from Uckfield in East Sussex have a distinctly different culture to those from Tonbridge in Kent is a difficult sell. Likewise anyone on the Welsh/English/Scottish borders.

 

[Mowgli37]

Eh.

I think it's always worth comparing this data to data from other countries. What do people in France and Germany think of their nation? What do people in Sweden think of their nation? How do we compare to Americans? What about the North Koreans or the Chinese?

I think it's a POSITIVE thing that many people are not proud of the country, shows that we know there is plenty we could be doing better and we all have ideas of what that might be. Better than thinking all is well with the world when it isn't. I think in any sane world response to such a question is always going to be poor.

Only thing of interest really is how it compares to other nations. I reckon in America it's really high, upwards of 70%, but does that make us a worse nation than America? If you ask me it just shows a much higher level of naivety. They have much higher rates of poverty than our nation and I certainly wouldn't want to live there when it came down to it. What about in a nation like Switzerland or Sweden which are regularly held up as nations with high levels of freedom and living standards, are they all much more proud of their nations than us and all a lot happier? I wouldn't be surprised if a poll there came out similar to us.

Good post. You're right about America, a poll conducted in 2013 showed 57% of residents who responded to the poll were "extremely proud" and 28% were "very proud" of being American.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/163361/proud-american.aspx

I couldn't find any data on the other countries you named but one article had this to say on the Swedes:

"Swedes are definitely a people proud of their country, with a sense of nationalism and unity like the proud French. When driving in Sweden throughout the countryside you can expect to see many Swedish flags proudly flapping in the wind. But when you bring up politics, the Swedes do realize as with any country theirs is not perfect, and their government is as corrupt as every other country’s. So they tend to simply ignore the political system (though many still vote) and hope if they don’t bother the government, then the government will leave them alone."

 

[Husty]

Good post. You're right about America, a poll conducted in 2013 showed 57% of residents who responded to the poll were "extremely proud" and 28% were "very proud" of being American.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/163361/proud-american.aspx

I couldn't find any data on the other countries you named but one article had this to say on the Swedes:

"Swedes are definitely a people proud of their country, with a sense of nationalism and unity like the proud French. When driving in Sweden throughout the countryside you can expect to see many Swedish flags proudly flapping in the wind. But when you bring up politics, the Swedes do realize as with any country theirs is not perfect, and their government is as corrupt as every other country’s. So they tend to simply ignore the political system (though many still vote) and hope if they don’t bother the government, then the government will leave them alone."

Yeh but with a nation like the French, they might be a lot more protective of their national identity than we are, but are they any HAPPIER about their nation as a whole? I reckon it's the reverse if anything, desperately clinging to the old ways in the hope it will bring something they currently perceive as lacking.

 

[daveinprague]

Really couldnt care less...it means nothing at the end of the day. Im proud of some British things..not so proud of others... Not sure location of birth necessarily gives a sense of pride...unless youre desperate to be proud of something.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

thats ridiculous. why try to derail the argument by saying its a quirk of fate where you were born in terms of geography. of course thats a fact. but the question of belonging to a culture, and society, that is markedly different from others, creates an association whether you like it or not. and the question is do you like it, or not?

you might think you are Mr Euro and see no differences at all between anyone, and claim to have no more common ground with someone from England, Germany or Timbuktu, but thats just a stance. But its really not true is it? admitting that doesnt make you less progressive or worldly, in fact the opposite. relax about it.

Why am I derailing a thread by giving a pretty clear reason for why I am not proud to be British..which is what the first post is about? And I do see differences between nations; many. Have you replied to the right person..or the right thread? Maybe have another coffee and try again?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Really couldnt care less...it means nothing at the end of the day. Im proud of some British things..not so proud of others... Not sure location of birth necessarily gives a sense of pride...unless youre desperate to be proud of something.

Pretty much this. I for one never think about "what I am", other than being me.

 

[mikeyjh]

Yeh but with a nation like the French, they might be a lot more protective of their national identity than we are, but are they any HAPPIER about their nation as a whole? I reckon it's the reverse if anything, desperately clinging to the old ways in the hope it will bring something they currently perceive as lacking.

There is a point here - As we're discovering, 'proud' means different things to different people and probably more so in different languages and cultures. These results may reflect that. I love England and the UK, but I would be a no on a 'pride' poll. I think that's a POSITIVE reflection on the lack of nationalism in England in particular. People are (loosely) English, British, whatever, happy with it, comfortable with it, don't always feel the need to run around waving flags and having an enormous celebration on St Georges day. I many respects, not rabidly promoting our Englishness is, well, very English....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There is a point here - As we're discovering, 'proud' means different things to different people and probably more so in different languages and cultures. These results may reflect that. I love England and the UK, but I would be a no on a 'pride' poll. I think that's a POSITIVE reflection on the lack of nationalism in England in particular. People are (loosely) English, British, whatever, happy with it, comfortable with it, don't always feel the need to run around waving flags and having an enormous celebration on St Georges day. I many respects, not rabidly promoting our Englishness is, well, very English....

A lof of sense in this post.

 

[Machiavelli]

Voted 'don't care', but I have to confess that I thought the vision that Danny Boyle portrayed in the opening ceremony was rather touching, but that's probably just the ageing process inducing sentimentality in me.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wonder what the results of the same survey will be after the world cup

 

[Machiavelli]

I wonder what the results of the same survey will be after the world cup

Might prove an opportunity to offload the Malvinas, yet another shocking example of a colonial past.

 

[Clive Walker]

Absolutely no pride in being British.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Might prove an opportunity to offload the Malvinas, yet another shocking example of a colonial past.

Despite a perfectly valid vote by the inhabitants to stay British ? Let's not worry about democracy, it's outdated and very over rated !

For me :

I'm proud to be British
I'm proud to be English
I'm proud to be from Sussex

If people have a problem with that ....... then tough titties.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Apply the litmus test, eg.
If you were in a foreign country and someone asked you where are you from, how would you answer?
a) Brighton
b) Sussex
c) England
d) Great Britain [I'm British]
e) UK
f) Europe

If you were somewhere in the UK and someone asked you where are you from, how would you answer?
a) Moulsecoomb / Roedean [ie district of Brighton]
b) Brighton
c) Sussex
d) England
e) Great Britain [I'm British]

My take on "proud" is that you will use the location that you would like to portray yourself as from that you believe will show you in a positive light.

I'm sure there are some people who are the opposite of proud [ashamed?] of where they are from and will avoid mentioning the location at all costs.

Just an angle, like .....