PMQ - Boris v Starmer - Spider And The Fly

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Desperate, desperate times for supporters of this Government. Now attacking supporters of the previous opposition leader.

Deflection, panic and pure Trump.

And don't forget 'whataboutery'.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Completely agree. Another amendment that needs to be pushed to the public's attention is the abolition of the NHS registration fee paid annually by certain employees of our beloved free at point health service. Now others will agree with me or disagree with me depending on their or others they know who work for the NHS circumstances but I can only give details of my step daughters circumstances. She is a band 6 staff nurse in charge of an ICU, of which has been at the front end if the covid 19 crisis. She deals with death in an unprecedented parallel in recent NHS history. It has undoubtedly will have a lasting effect on her mental health but she doesn't moan or regret doing the job she loves and chose to do. What I think I is wrong is for the ' privilege ' of keeping her highly qualified and highly responsible job she is charged a sum of in excess of £100 annually. You may thinks its slightly emotive to think this fee should be waived but don't you agree it's hard to understand how someone who has to commit a lot of skill, hard work, risking their own health, and her family (she had had suspected Covid and passed it to her husband and two boys) having to pay a fee to keep her registered as a Nurse in the NHS.
Wouldn't it be morally correct to rid the NHS workers of this additional expenditure to show our appreciation to marvellous service this country has witnessed, especially recently.
I may be right or I may be wrong but I think this fee is on a par with ridding the fee, albeit on a temporary basis to foreign workers had to pay to use the NHS highlighted by Starmer and prompting the government to make a moral and correct u turn. In my opinion it should be free to continue to be registered for the job you have qualified for, worked hard at, emotionally and physically and invested a large chunk of your life committed to. Why should you have to pay for the privilege to do the job you love.

Here here

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Machiavelli]

Wow didn't realise the Tory party were footing the bill for furlough.

That's a relief, I thought it was being paid by tax payers.

F&*^ me. I thought I liked taxes, but I've never heard a better reason for raising taxes.

 

[Machiavelli]

While Starmer brought it to people's attention, I think the pressure exerted by Jeremy Hunt (chair of the health select committee) and other Tory back benchers probably had more effect than Starmer.

There were stories last week that Patel was pushing ahead with the policy even though members of the cabinet disagreed with her, so it was not a universally supported policy anyway. One thing about this is that it's a massive slap in the face for her.

Hunt has been excellent throughout CV19, and it is yet another illustration of the effectiveness of Parliamentary Select Committees. There's a lot wrong with our democracy, but PSCs have been a welcome addition.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

While Starmer brought it to people's attention, I think the pressure exerted by Jeremy Hunt (chair of the health select committee) and other Tory back benchers probably had more effect than Starmer.

There were stories last week that Patel was pushing ahead with the policy even though members of the cabinet disagreed with her, so it was not a universally supported policy anyway. One thing about this is that it's a massive slap in the face for her.

Very true, when a government has a large majority, it's early in a parliament and riding high in the polls they can largely ignore or ride out political storms caused by unpopular decisions or policies ... whereas internal opposition at cabinet level and rebellions amongst senior backbenchers can cause a rethink. Saying that Starmer did his job effectively, recognising an opportunity and exploiting it successfully which makes a pleasant change from his predecessor.

One note of caution for all the devoted Starmtroopers on here, good performances at PMQ's don't win elections (ask W Hague) and as far as I can make out (difficult to nail him down yet) Starmer is positioning to the left of Ed Miliband and to the right of Corbyn .... how did they get on again?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Although Matt Hancock was again lying at the Press Briefing today, when asked about the change, in that he said that yesterday at PMQs the PM was answering a question on the whole of the levy applied to all non EEA nationals not just NHS staff.

He clearly hopes that no one watches PMQs or reads Hansard.

The exact questioning from Keith Starmer was


Every Thursday, we go out and clap for our carers. Many of them are risking their lives for the sake of all of us. Does the Prime Minister think it is right that careworkers coming from abroad and working on our frontline should have to pay a surcharge of hundreds, sometimes thousands of pounds to use the NHS themselves?


The PMs answer

I have thought a great deal about this, and I accept and understand the difficulties faced by our amazing NHS staff. Like the right hon. and learned Gentleman, I have been a personal beneficiary of carers who have come from abroad and frankly saved my life. I know exactly the importance of what he asks. On the other hand, we must look at the realities. This is a great national service—it is a national institution—that needs funding, and those contributions help us to raise about £900 million. It is very difficult in the current circumstances to find alternative sources, so with great respect for the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s point, I think it is the right way forward.


Leaving aside the £900m is at least 10 times the amount raised from overseas NHS staff, Johnson clearly stated that the levy should apply.

Negative headlines and no doubt fearing it would cost him future votes he decided on a quick UTurn.

Hopefully people won't forget Johnsons and the Tories original position was totally wrong.

He never misses an opportunity to tell us, yet again, how he was, allegedly, at death’s door.

 

[drew]

Very true, when a government has a large majority, it's early in a parliament and riding high in the polls they can largely ignore or ride out political storms caused by unpopular decisions or policies ... whereas internal opposition at cabinet level and rebellions amongst senior backbenchers can cause a rethink. Saying that Starmer did his job effectively, recognising an opportunity and exploiting it successfully which makes a pleasant change from his predecessor.

One note of caution for all the devoted Starmtroopers on here, good performances at PMQ's don't win elections (ask W Hague) and as far as I can make out (difficult to nail him down yet) Starmer is positioning to the left of Ed Miliband and to the right of Corbyn .... how did they get on again?

But also performing badly at PMQs also doesn't win elections.

 

[drew]

Completely agree. Another amendment that needs to be pushed to the public's attention is the abolition of the NHS registration fee paid annually by certain employees of our beloved free at point health service. Now others will agree with me or disagree with me depending on their or others they know who work for the NHS circumstances but I can only give details of my step daughters circumstances. She is a band 6 staff nurse in charge of an ICU, of which has been at the front end if the covid 19 crisis. She deals with death in an unprecedented parallel in recent NHS history. It has undoubtedly will have a lasting effect on her mental health but she doesn't moan or regret doing the job she loves and chose to do. What I think I is wrong is for the ' privilege ' of keeping her highly qualified and highly responsible job she is charged a sum of in excess of £100 annually. You may thinks its slightly emotive to think this fee should be waived but don't you agree it's hard to understand how someone who has to commit a lot of skill, hard work, risking their own health, and her family (she had had suspected Covid and passed it to her husband and two boys) having to pay a fee to keep her registered as a Nurse in the NHS.
Wouldn't it be morally correct to rid the NHS workers of this additional expenditure to show our appreciation to marvellous service this country has witnessed, especially recently.
I may be right or I may be wrong but I think this fee is on a par with ridding the fee, albeit on a temporary basis to foreign workers had to pay to use the NHS highlighted by Starmer and prompting the government to make a moral and correct u turn. In my opinion it should be free to continue to be registered for the job you have qualified for, worked hard at, emotionally and physically and invested a large chunk of your life committed to. Why should you have to pay for the privilege to do the job you love.

I assume you are talking about the Nursing and Midwifery Council registration fee. If so, I'm not entirely sure I agree. This is all about maintaining and improving standards of nurses. No different to lots of other organizations that monitor the standard of their members, surveyors, solicitors even doctors!

 

[Gwylan]

One note of caution for all the devoted Starmtroopers on here, good performances at PMQ's don't win elections (ask W Hague) and as far as I can make out (difficult to nail him down yet) Starmer is positioning to the left of Ed Miliband and to the right of Corbyn .... how did they get on again?

It's true that Hague was good at PMQ but he was up against Blair, who was also very good (I'd say the best PM in my lifetime at handling PMQ) That's the difference with Starmer - he's up against a PM who's abysmal at PMQ. I'd say you are spot on with Starmer's positioning though

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

By whom?

Are they medical bods?

I’ve seen plenty such comments including by public health and medical bods. I am not sure how easy it would be to find one, but I would have thought it is a commonly held view.

 

[beorhthelm]

I’ve seen plenty such comments including by public health and medical bods. I am not sure how easy it would be to find one, but I would have thought it is a commonly held view.

there are concerns some under-reporting has occured, but also dubious reporting where covid is recorded without proper validation. its not common view we have significantly underestimated counts. latest mortality is under the average, posing questions what the impact will look like on longer term.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

I assume you are talking about the Nursing and Midwifery Council registration fee. If so, I'm not entirely sure I agree. This is all about maintaining and improving standards of nurses. No different to lots of other organizations that monitor the standard of their members, surveyors, solicitors even doctors!

I know what your saying, electricians, plumbers and a host of other qualified professionals pay for registration fees but would you concede that if these professions are self employed they are paying to maintain standards of their chosen professional career.If somebody was employed, correct me (and I most probably am) if I am wrong but most employers would pay for these fees so their employees are qualified to work in that particular industry. It just seems to me Nurses & midwives are paying a fee which really should be the responsibility of the employer. I suppose by nurses paying their own registration fees it has qualified them to work in the private sector where they could possibly benefit from better pay and in better conditions. The majority of Nurses & midwives are loyal to the NHS because they appreciate the training and qualifications gained through their careers.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

One note of caution for all the devoted Starmtroopers on here, good performances at PMQ's don't win elections (ask W Hague) and as far as I can make out (difficult to nail him down yet) Starmer is positioning to the left of Ed Miliband and to the right of Corbyn .... how did they get on again?

1. Ideology doesn't win elections, appearing to be competent wins elections.

2. Whether or not someone appears to be competent is almost entirely decided by the media

3. The media will usually decide if someone is competent based on how close they are to the centre-right 'norm' - but this can be swayed by actual incompetence, see May, T. and presumably therefore, by actual competence, hopefully in the case of Starmer, K.


Sorry, trying to run a little thought experiment.

On your point, Hague may well have been good at PMQ's, but so was Blair, so that cancelled out. If Johnson continue to be shit..... ah, f*ck it, 5 years is a long way away......

 

[Bozza]

On your point, Hague may well have been good at PMQ's, but so was Blair, so that cancelled out. If Johnson continue to be shit..... ah, f*ck it, 5 years is a long way away......

How many people see, and take notice of, PMQ performance ordinarily? I'd venture it's relatively few given it's tucked away on a Wednesday lunchtime when most will be at work. I doubt many people make sure they watch a replay of it after the event, and I'm assuming it only gets limited coverage on the main news bulletins much of the time.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

there are concerns some under-reporting has occured, but also dubious reporting where covid is recorded without proper validation. its not common view we have significantly underestimated counts. latest mortality is under the average, posing questions what the impact will look like on longer term.

I believe it is the common view we have significantly underestimated counts.

I haven't seen the latest figures you reference but under-the-average mortality is to be expected if we're all lockdowned, i.e. fewer accidents, fewer infections etc - which would logically mean an even greater under-reporting of covid19 deaths over the past few weeks.

It will all come out in scientific research in time.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

How many people see, and take notice of, PMQ performance ordinarily? I'd venture it's relatively few given it's tucked away on a Wednesday lunchtime when most will be at work. I doubt many people make sure they watch a replay of it after the event, and I'm assuming it only gets limited coverage on the main news bulletins much of the time.

Ordinarily - yeah, few. We've all been very tuned in during the Brexit process and this heightened political involvement of the masses will continue for a while, but of course it will fade.

Nevertheless, if there is a big discrepancy between the relative performances of the two leaders, that will become a narrative in its own right, which will then lead to more attention and focus on the news.

But ordinarily we can go long periods of time without ever checking in on what is going on at Westminster, and I'm sure we're all looking forward to that time again. Its been a while, considering the cluster**** of leaders the Tories have been blessing us with.......

 

[Uh_huh_him]

How many people see, and take notice of, PMQ performance ordinarily? I'd venture it's relatively few given it's tucked away on a Wednesday lunchtime when most will be at work. I doubt many people make sure they watch a replay of it after the event, and I'm assuming it only gets limited coverage on the main news bulletins much of the time.

Very much this.

Political debate in the media is now a very niche market, and has little impact on public opinion.
Whereas a well targeted social media campaign can work wonders.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Very much this.

Political debate in the media is now a very niche market, and has little impact on public opinion.
Whereas a well targeted social media campaign can work wonders.

One image from the last election campaign still haunts me. It was one of those BBC-can't-be-accused-of-being-London-centric exercises when they went to somewhere pretty grim up north. They were doing a vox pop in a run-down shopping centre. A lady in her 60s - who looked like she didn't have two pennies to rub together- was asked who she was voting for. "Boris", she said, "he's one of us".

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

One image from the last election campaign still haunts me. It was one of those BBC-can't-be-accused-of-being-London-centric exercises when they went to somewhere pretty grim up north. They were doing a vox pop in a run-down shopping centre. A lady in her 60s - who looked like she didn't have two pennies to rub together- was asked who she was voting for. "Boris", she said, "he's one of us".

And I checked. Yes, this is the same Boris of Eton, Oxford and the Bullingdon Club, who litters his speeches with Latin and can earn more in writing one article than the poor old girl would see in a year.

 

[Bozza]

Very much this.

Political debate in the media is now a very niche market, and has little impact on public opinion.
Whereas a well targeted social media campaign can work wonders.

...and those who do go out of their way to watch PMQ will already have made their minds up about who "won" before they've watched it.

There's an obvious cohort on here who would never be able to say that Johnson won a debate, whilst another group who would never concede that Starmer had the upper hand.