PMQ - Boris v Starmer - Spider And The Fly

[Biscuit]

I'm not a member of the Conservative party so did not vote for Johnson either but come on . . . Jeremy Hunt !!!
Less waving of the arms than Boris admittedly but is he really any better ? He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory during this, or any other, NHS crisis.
I think Keir Starmer will walk the next election.

No chance.

Corbyn made sure of that. He lost so many seats it'd take a swing of 1997 Blair proportions to land a majority.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I know we are in lockdown but prior to that, what else did you do?

It's incredible the amount of research you do to support your posts.

Is it really satisfying?

So, when you come across a post that you disagree with, but are obviously incapable of arguing with, because it's accurate and well researched, you then try to belittle the poster.

Is it really satisfying ?

 

[blue-shifted]

The Tories have done rather well by never underestimating the capacity of the UK public to believe any old shite they feed to their mates in the press.

Exhibit A: Public perception of Corbyn 2017 vs 2019

They will try and do the same again with Starmer in the time they have until the next general election.

But it will be harder. Even though Starmer has essentially adopted the same 'extremist/radical' policy agenda as Corbyn developed he has nicer hair, so people will be less inclined to believe the smears.

Also, the Mail and the Express readership are being directly affected by this. Do you know how badly their property price and share portfolio's have been hit? It's an absolute disaster! Someone has to carry the can for this.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Indeed, she's done a great job.

Horses for courses, not sure that approach would have worked in the UK scenario.

As per my earlier post. No-one knows whether she has done a good job yet.
Everyone agrees they know exactly what the strategy is though.

People who understand what the strategy is are much better at sticking to it.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

This is a party with no moral compass, if she does have to step down (be surprised if it does happen) she'll be back, you only have to look at the likes of Patel and Williamson

Dorries is a hopeless political I recall back in 2017 a leaked What's AP message demonstrating her lack of know of the EU Customs Union

Dorries is mega thick in a parliamentary grouping where the stupidity bar has been set high. Her form card for ridiculous utterings is quite impressive. She should of course resign, but little chance given the low moral compass of the current government. Of the other two, Allan has previous for making false claims plus Caulfied is Caulfield. Anyone who has had dealings with her in Lewes will be aware of her.

The truth is, the Tories are bricking it. Without the braying sycophants on the back benches, Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth and getting his arse handed back by Starmer with ease. They are in panic mode and this mornings desperate smears were the result. I'd love to see Starmer take further action against these three, but I doubt he will. Given his background, I expect he's very capable of figuring the process of a defamation writ. Given the back history of the Tory pin up girl Thatcher and her long association with a paedophile, despite being warned off him by aides, any Tory attempting to make mileage against Starmer is on very thin ice.

 

[Is it PotG?]

As per my earlier post. No-one knows whether she has done a good job yet.
Everyone agrees they know exactly what the strategy is though.

People who understand what the strategy is are much better at sticking to it.

Do you believe that the folks strolling around for weeks, having Bbqs on the beach and keeping their free spirits man would have complied better in that instance?

 

[blue-shifted]

No chance.

Corbyn made sure of that. He lost so many seats it'd take a swing of 1997 Blair proportions to land a majority.

It's not impossible. The facts on the ground are far more extreme than they ever were in the 1990's. A colossal swing is possible, but it relies on a few things happening.

1) Labour would somehow need to win back a chunk of Scotland. The really need the SNP to implode. (quite possible)
2) Middle England won't back Labour whilst the papers tell them not to. If, for example, the sun backed Starmer, that would be huge. (stranger things have happened)
3) Brexit needs to be yesterdays news, (quite possible that some negotiations will still be going on).
4) Coronavirus would still need to be an issue and the Tories would have to keep messing it up. (highly likely)
5) Starmer is the leader of Labours dreams, but his front bench team are very low profile. They need to get out in the public eye and impress (not implausible)
6) They will need a manifesto that speaks to the "Workington man" types, plus Boris must have let them down (a near certainty)

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Do you believe that the folks strolling around for weeks, having Bbqs on the beach and keeping their free spirits man would have complied better in that instance?

Yes

 

[Is it PotG?]

It's not impossible. The facts on the ground are far more extreme than they ever were in the 1990's. A colossal swing is possible, but it relies on a few things happening.

1) Labour would somehow need to win back a chunk of Scotland. The really need the SNP to implode. (quite possible)
2) Middle England won't back Labour whilst the papers tell them not to. If, for example, the sun backed Starmer, that would be huge. (stranger things have happened)
3) Brexit needs to be yesterdays news, (quite possible that some negotiations will still be going on).
4) Coronavirus would still need to be an issue and the Tories would have to keep messing it up. (highly likely)
5) Starmer is the leader of Labours dreams, but his front bench team are very low profile. They need to get out in the public eye and impress (not implausible)
6) They will need a manifesto that speaks to the "Workington man" types, plus Boris must have let them down (a near certainty)

Looks like a done deal to me.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Yes

Fair enough. I don't.

 

[sydney]

if you think Boris Johnson has the reigns of this catastrophe you are deluded........its coming from way above him .....this could well be your last chance to hold onto your liberty.....cant go here , can't go there , can't do this can't do that .......aaaahhrrrm.....bollox .

 

[Biscuit]

It's not impossible. The facts on the ground are far more extreme than they ever were in the 1990's. A colossal swing is possible, but it relies on a few things happening.

1) Labour would somehow need to win back a chunk of Scotland. The really need the SNP to implode. (quite possible)
2) Middle England won't back Labour whilst the papers tell them not to. If, for example, the sun backed Starmer, that would be huge. (stranger things have happened)
3) Brexit needs to be yesterdays news, (quite possible that some negotiations will still be going on).
4) Coronavirus would still need to be an issue and the Tories would have to keep messing it up. (highly likely)
5) Starmer is the leader of Labours dreams, but his front bench team are very low profile. They need to get out in the public eye and impress (not implausible)
6) They will need a manifesto that speaks to the "Workington man" types, plus Boris must have let them down (a near certainty)

That's a LOT of conditions.. I can't see it happening. Corbyn simply lost too many seats. Best Labour can realistically hope for is coalition I think.

 

[rippleman]

Starmer's not even moved out of first gear yet. This is a guy that was DPP after all. On a human level, I do feel for Boris. He's just come back into a hugely pressurised job off the back of a hugely debilitating illness. But on a professional level, he's clearly been promoted to the level of his incompetence. Would not be in the least surprised if he stepped down sometime soon with the reason given as 'health grounds'. Which would at least be a valid part of the reason

He caught the debilitating illness because he ignored the instruction that he gave all of us and continued shaking peoples hands. He set a terrible example when he should have been setting a good one.

Don't feel sorry for him at all.

 

[dazzer6666]

It's not impossible. The facts on the ground are far more extreme than they ever were in the 1990's. A colossal swing is possible, but it relies on a few things happening.

1) Labour would somehow need to win back a chunk of Scotland. The really need the SNP to implode. (quite possible)
2) Middle England won't back Labour whilst the papers tell them not to. If, for example, the sun backed Starmer, that would be huge. (stranger things have happened)
3) Brexit needs to be yesterdays news, (quite possible that some negotiations will still be going on).
4) Coronavirus would still need to be an issue and the Tories would have to keep messing it up. (highly likely)
5) Starmer is the leader of Labours dreams, but his front bench team are very low profile. They need to get out in the public eye and impress (not implausible)
6) They will need a manifesto that speaks to the "Workington man" types, plus Boris must have let them down (a near certainty)

All may have an impact, but the state of the economy will probably over-ride all of them. If we're in some form of visible, steady, long term recovery and things have improved quite significantly by the time of the GE, Labour won't have a hope in hell because the whole narrative will be about not risking another recession. If we're still in recession, it'll be game on I suspect with all the points you listed being important. Boris will probably have been skewered well before then as well, so could be highly dependent on who is leading the Tories.

 

[Gwylan]

All may have an impact, but the state of the economy will probably over-ride all of them. If we're in some form of visible, steady, long term recovery and things have improved quite significantly by the time of the GE, Labour won't have a hope in hell because the whole narrative will be about not risking another recession. If we're still in recession, it'll be game on I suspect with all the points you listed being important. Boris will probably have been skewered well before then as well, so could be highly dependent on who is leading the Tories.

Yep. There was always going to be economic hit after Brexit - even Farage admitted that - but the thinking was that it was going to be short-lived. Covid has changed that - the likelihood is that we'll be in recession when we finally leave the EU and, as it's likely it will be a no-deal exit, there'll be quite an economic hit. Obviously, the Tories' hope is that by 2023, they'll begin to recover and present themselves as the saviour of the economy but - and this is the unknown - it lasts longer and deeper than that and we go into the election with the economy still in a mess, it will be hard for them to win.

So, if the economy hasn't recovered I reckon Labour could win a majority, albeit a small one, without even denting Scotland. If the Tories ignore the north and midlands, they're not going to hold onto all the seats they gained, and there are some very small majorities in London and in the south.

To take two local examples: if there are big job losses at Gatwick, I can see them losing Crawley and the Lewes voters will twig they have an idiot as their MP.

 

[dazzer6666]

Yep. There was always going to be economic hit after Brexit - even Farage admitted that - but the thinking was that it was going to be short-lived. Covid has changed that - the likelihood is that we'll be in recession when we finally leave the EU and, as it's likely it will be a no-deal exit, there'll be quite an economic hit. Obviously, the Tories' hope is that by 2023, they'll begin to recover and present themselves as the saviour of the economy but - and this is the unknown - it lasts longer and deeper than that and we go into the election with the economy still in a mess, it will be hard for them to win.

So, if the economy hasn't recovered I reckon Labour could win a majority, albeit a small one, without even denting Scotland. If the Tories ignore the north and midlands, they're not going to hold onto all the seats they gained, and there are some very small majorities in London and in the south.

To take two local examples: if there are big job losses at Gatwick, I can see them losing Crawley and the Lewes voters will twig they have an idiot as their MP.

The arguments will be interesting - seeing how they try to extract the Brexit and Covid impacts........I suspect the latter will be the excuse for literally everything bad for the next 5 years.

 

[Gwylan]

The arguments will be interesting - seeing how they try to extract the Brexit and Covid impacts........I suspect the latter will be the excuse for literally everything bad for the next 5 years.

I'm sure it will be but in five years time, we will be able to make international comparisons.

There's one other factor that may come into play. Corbyn and Swinson were completely opposed to any sort of arrangement between Lab and LDs. That may be an option in 2024: it wouldn't need to be massive - Labour withdrawing from half a dozen seats in the SW and a couple in greater London, LDs pulling out of slightly more may be enough to swing the balance.

It's very early days to discuss such an arrangement - LDs don't even have a permanent leader yet - but it's not something I would rule out completely. That could make a really big difference

 

[clapham_gull]

Dorries is mega thick in a parliamentary grouping where the stupidity bar has been set high. Her form card for ridiculous utterings is quite impressive. She should of course resign, but little chance given the low moral compass of the current government. Of the other two, Allan has previous for making false claims plus Caulfied is Caulfield. Anyone who has had dealings with her in Lewes will be aware of her.

The truth is, the Tories are bricking it. Without the braying sycophants on the back benches, Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth and getting his arse handed back by Starmer with ease. They are in panic mode and this mornings desperate smears were the result. I'd love to see Starmer take further action against these three, but I doubt he will. Given his background, I expect he's very capable of figuring the process of a defamation writ. Given the back history of the Tory pin up girl Thatcher and her long association with a paedophile, despite being warned off him by aides, any Tory attempting to make mileage against Starmer is on very thin ice.

There are in absolute panic mode. The rapid brexit back benchers are also starting to get restless. You are starting to see these slow creep of a Trump like narrative starting to bubble to the surface regarding opening the economy.

Steve Baker has been questioning the lock down full stop and it anyone hasn't seen it poor Boris has had his private papers photographed outside 10 Downing Street.

His advisors telling him he isn't allowed in a meeting on his own with Sir Graham Brady. One of the "hawks" who wants the lock down relaxed early.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hnson-dodge-meeting-Tory-backbench-chief.html

 

[clapham_gull]

In response to the three MPs giving a platform to their far right Twitter chum:

Sir Keir said he was satisfied with the actions taken by the party and the MPs, who have deleted the tweets.

"There are more important things in the world to concentrate on than a doctored video of me," he added.

Cool calm Keir. I'm not sold on him as yet, but he is playing a blinder.

 

[vegster]

Dorries is mega thick in a parliamentary grouping where the stupidity bar has been set high. Her form card for ridiculous utterings is quite impressive. She should of course resign, but little chance given the low moral compass of the current government. Of the other two, Allan has previous for making false claims plus Caulfied is Caulfield. Anyone who has had dealings with her in Lewes will be aware of her.

The truth is, the Tories are bricking it. Without the braying sycophants on the back benches, Johnson is hopelessly out of his depth and getting his arse handed back by Starmer with ease. They are in panic mode and this mornings desperate smears were the result. I'd love to see Starmer take further action against these three, but I doubt he will. Given his background, I expect he's very capable of figuring the process of a defamation writ. Given the back history of the Tory pin up girl Thatcher and her long association with a paedophile, despite being warned off him by aides, any Tory attempting to make mileage against Starmer is on very thin ice.

This !..... Johnson rapidly going from hero to zero and there is nothing the Tory party can do, they elected him and they are stuck with him for now. I would not expect too many Tory MP's turning up for PMQ's in the future as its so embarrassing for them. As you say, Starmer won't kick off about these tweets, he will just use it against the Tories when the time is right. I for one fully expected something like this to happen, I bet the right wing press are desperate for something to turn up and deflect from Johnson's insipid performances.... will be hilarious if they can't find anything.