PMQ - Boris v Starmer - Spider And The Fly

[blue-shifted]

His job hasn't allowed him to rest and recover fully.
Its a pig of a situation at present. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The easiest thing to do is to criticise and pick holes in everything. Every country around the world is dealing with an unknown enemy. It hasn't stopped many using it as a political platform and point scoring exercise. Even the biggest threat on the planet for decades hasn't stopped the jaundiced, inflexible and dyed in the wool types from ripping apart any decision making and keep demanding a plan when you are in a situation with no real timelines or framework. Just as in war time, mistakes are made, sometimes very costly but all through policy must concentrate on the bigger picture.
Covid 19 has proved that a society can divide for many different reasons. There hasn't been total unity over lockdown. There are many who have been resentful of isolation and loss of liberty and have tried to flout guidelines at every opportunity. I was told of a care home worker who visits and receives visits from friends, family and acquaintances on a regular basis and has done so for some weeks. In a large town near me, police have been telling groups of people to go home every day. They weren't out shopping or exercising. They were gathering, drinking and not trying to self-distance. This is multiplied all over the country.
Is it any surprise that the two biggest international hubs, the USA and the UK have been the hardest hit. We can all argue that lockdown could possibly have been started earlier, some events should have been stopped earlier, more PPE could have been sourced earlier, track and trace should have been maintained and flights from Covid hotspots stopped well before they were and more emphasis given to care homes. Thats all history now, as is where this all started, how it started, how it spread and how much early information was or wasn't given.
( p.s Starmer has a very easy job compared to Boris at the moment. Judge him, when some sort of normality returns and the usual domestic/international affairs are on the agenda and we are in the throes of a massive recession. )

They also have in common of course, that they have populist and narcissistic leaders. As does Brazil which is getting hammered. All of those countries had a huge head start.

Plenty of international hubs have escaped the worst of this virus.

 

[Simster]

What a true vagina you always have been and continue to be [emoji23][emoji23]


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Eh? He's right FFS. You said you agree with most Labour policies but wouldn't ever vote for them. There's one person looking like clown here and it isn't [MENTION=481]Voroshilov[/MENTION].

 

[Uh_huh_him]

No. Forget about the chippy idiots like Peston diring the early daily briefings doing the 'easiest thing'. Nobody took any notice of them. I saw no 'ripping apart'. Maybe you spent too much time gawping at Marxist websites and getting outraged. Boris was cut a massive lot of slack for a long time.

I'd say it has completely gone the other way now owing to a widespread recognition that the daily mishandling, soppy sloganeering, and now a premature easing without planning, is potentially putting people at avoidable risk. And of course people are looking back at what went before with a less favourable eye now.

But don't worry, if the numbers are tumbling in four weeks and life is getting back to normal then despite hardship and deaths now, Boris and his team will have proven they judged it right........

Now I'm a dyed in the wool socialist, who likes nothing more than putting the boot in to the Tories.
However I acknowledge that this is a very difficult situation and no-one will know who had the best approach for a very long time.

Germany have started to see rises following the lock-down eases. This highlights the fact that unless everyone in the world enforces a total lock-down for 4 weeks, the virus is going to come back again and again.
Countries who may be lauded now, might be seen as fools when they are still in economic recession and a near constant cycle of lock-down, reprieve, lock-down.

What I do object to however is the refusal to come out and say what they are doing and their motivations.
Tell us that the focus is the economy and they believe that reaching Herd immunity is the only way out of this.
They could be right. It's going to be brutal, but they may end up being right.


Trying to switch focus to the general public and their responsibilities, is cowardice in the extreme and unforgivable in my opinion.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

His job hasn't allowed him to rest and recover fully.
Its a pig of a situation at present. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There hasn't been total unity over lockdown. There are many who have been resentful of isolation and loss of liberty and have tried to flout guidelines at every opportunity. I was told of a care home worker who visits and receives visits from friends, family and acquaintances on a regular basis and has done so for some weeks. In a large town near me, police have been telling groups of people to go home every day. They weren't out shopping or exercising. They were gathering, drinking and not trying to self-distance. This is multiplied all over the country.

It's so easy to blame the public and declare Johnson innocent. Throw in a casual comment about hearsay rather than looking at the facts about carers and care homes.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...omes-asked-to-take-covid-19-patients-11969661

https://www.theguardian.com/society...hreaten-quit-over-return-coronavirus-patients

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...say-GPs-wont-visit-residents-coronavirus.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...patients-suspected-coronavirus-nhs-hospitals/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52606985

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Now I'm a dyed in the wool socialist, who likes nothing more than putting the boot in to the Tories.
However I acknowledge that this is a very difficult situation and no-one will know who had the best approach for a very long time.

Germany have started to see rises following the lock-down eases. This highlights the fact that unless everyone in the world enforces a total lock-down for 4 weeks, the virus is going to come back again and again.
Countries who may be lauded now, might be seen as fools when they are still in economic recession and a near constant cycle of lock-down, reprieve, lock-down.

What I do object to however is the refusal to come out and say what they are doing and their motivations.
Tell us that the focus is the economy and they believe that reaching Herd immunity is the only way out of this.
They could be right. It's going to be brutal, but they may end up being right.


Trying to switch focus to the general public and their responsibilities, is cowardice in the extreme and unforgivable in my opinion.

Yes. I am still trying to back away from restating at every turn my long abiding desire for Boris to get in the sea, which may result in my coming across as overly generous to him. I want to see him out of power quickly, for a range of reasons, and see him being as good for the health of the nation long term as gin and tonic for breakfast. But I don't want to conflate my general assessment of him with that of his Covid management, and feel his handling of that should be judged, later, in its own context. I suspect he may well be swinging into irredeemable thundercunt territory on this already, but to maintain my distance (and keep my powder dry) I will allow for the benefit of doubt. For 4 weeks.

 

[Chicken Run]

Eh? He's right FFS. You said you agree with most Labour policies but wouldn't ever vote for them. There's one person looking like clown here and it isn't [MENTION=481]Voroshilov[/MENTION].

No you’re wrong ffs, the political compass places me left of centre!!! Surely you don’t believe that site either, I thought you were cleverer than that.


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[WATFORD zero]

No you’re wrong ffs, the political compass places me left of centre!!! Surely you don’t believe that site either, I thought you were cleverer than that.


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Maybe you could find a right wing political compass, that no matter what you answer to the questions, always brings you back as Conservative.

Would that help ?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

What are his policies?

He only has one.

To pick holes in a unconstructive way of the handling of the biggest disease the worlds has seen in over 100 years.

He is still sore that he lost the anti-Brexit battle he tried to drive forward, and is looking for revenge.

Why can't he just do what's best for the country and for team Britain?

 

[Chicken Run]

Maybe you could find a right wing political compass, that no matter what you answer to the questions, always brings you back as Conservative.

Would that help ?

Great idea!


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[Frutos]

He only has one.

To pick holes in a unconstructive way of the handling of the biggest disease the worlds has seen in over 100 years.

He is still sore that he lost the anti-Brexit battle he tried to drive forward, and is looking for revenge.

Why can't he just do what's best for the country and for team Britain?

Not everything is about Brexit.

He is doing exactly what the LOTO is supposed to do - holding the government to account. A government whose handling of this pandemic has contributed to "Team Britain" having one of the highest death totals on the planet.

Were Labour in power and the Tories in opposition in these circumstances, you'd be foaming at the mouth for the LOTO to be attacking the PM at every opportunity.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

He only has one.

To pick holes in a unconstructive way of the handling of the biggest disease the worlds has seen in over 100 years.

He is still sore that he lost the anti-Brexit battle he tried to drive forward, and is looking for revenge.

Why can't he just do what's best for the country and for team Britain?

Keep up at the back.

Keir Starmer has rejected calls for the Brexit transition period to be extended, saying he would rather “the negotiations were completed as quickly as possible”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-starmer-boris-johnson-deal-eu-a9508136.html


Ps I agree with him. Give this government enough rope so they can take all the blame.

 

[Seaber]

What are his policies?

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

1. Economic justice
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.

2. Social justice
Abolish Universal Credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.

3. Climate justice
Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.

4. Promote peace and human rights
No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.

5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.

6. Defend migrants’ rights
Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.

7. Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.

8. Radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity
Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.

9. Equality
Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.

10. Effective opposition to the Tories
Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.

 

[Is it PotG?]

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

1. Economic justice
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.

2. Social justice
Abolish Universal Credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.

3. Climate justice
Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.

4. Promote peace and human rights
No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.

5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.

6. Defend migrants’ rights
Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.

7. Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.

8. Radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity
Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.

9. Equality
Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.

10. Effective opposition to the Tories
Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.

Let's hope he gets elected in 4 and a bit years time to bring all that to fruition. Sticking with the plan re: privatisation I see.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Let's hope he gets elected in 4 and a bit years time to bring all that to fruition. Sticking with the plan re: privatisation I see.

Have you read number 5?

 

[Stat Brother]

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

1. Economic justice
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.

2. Social justice
Abolish Universal Credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.

3. Climate justice
Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.

4. Promote peace and human rights
No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.

5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.

6. Defend migrants’ rights
Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.

7. Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.

8. Radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity
Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.

9. Equality
Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.

10. Effective opposition to the Tories
Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.

I didn't come here for a lecture in communism.

 

[HH Brighton]

Never read so much rubbish on NSC. This is an unprecedented situation that nobody has had to deal with before and hopefully never again. Whatever government was in power would on reflection done somethings different. Even as a labour voter would prefer to see politicians try to help situation rather then score points. Those in still secure jobs think lock down should be still enforced and those whose job is in danger want it to be eased. Same with football so many think it should return and just as many think it is mad. My nephew for example will be fuming if football restarts as he has cancelled wedding. I repeat no win situation and will be criticised whatever they do.

Here lies the problem, idiots like this which is why we have a racist, priviledged, blundering baffoon as PM

 

[Is it PotG?]

Have you read number 5?

Yes, yes I have.

Just wondered where this money will come from, bearing in mind our current financial situation, and that ahead.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yes, yes I have.

Just wondered where this money will come from, bearing in mind our current financial situation, and that ahead.

Tories always say There Is No Magic Money Tree. Except when they need there to be one, obviously. Swamp-dwelling neanderthals of the DUP need a billion quid to prop up a minority Tory government? No problem, who do we make the cheque out to?

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nadine-dorries-tories-far-right-a9514001.html

Conservative MPs including a health minister have shared an edited video of Keir Starmer from a “far-right” Twitter account.

The footage, dating from Sir Keir’s time as director of public prosecutions in 2013, was taken from an announcement of new guidelines on charging grooming gangs.

But it had been edited to remove the start of the interview where he was asked to give examples of the “wrong approach”, making it appear to justify failing to believe child victims.

Better lawyer up eh

 

[Stato]

I didn't come here for a lecture in communism.

If you cannot distinguish between it and a return to the largely Keynesian policies pursued by most governments of West European capitalist economies for three decades following the end of World War II, I'm guessing that you've never been anywhere for a lecture in communism.