Palace Players Not Paid December Wages

[Juan Albion]

seriously never knew that either


thanks for the heads up

It's not true. It is an urban myth. Just because a policeman said it doesn't make it true.

 

[TrevorDove]

Any turn of phrase that is suspected as being racist is subject to close scrutiny, especially in the USA; hence the euphemistic 'N-word'. Reports that a harmless word like picnic originated as the name of a lynching party only have to be voiced to be taken seriously and become part of folk-etymology.

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005. Had the firm that was conducting the training known that their claims were to reach so wide a public they may have chosen their words more carefully.

The general touchiness over language that might have had a racist origin is enhanced by the ongoing guilt felt by some communities that were formerly involved with the slave trade, for example the English sea-ports of Bristol and Liverpool. In July 2006, Liverpool Council debated the proposal that Penny Lane in Liverpool should be renamed to remove the association with the slave-trader James Penny. This was dismissed as ludicrous by many in the city, but the very fact that the suggestion was made indicates a degree of ongoing unease.

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

The first reference that I can find of the phrase in print is from the New York Catalog of Copyright Entries, Part 3 - Musical Compositions, 1937. That lists a song entitled 'That Nitty Gritty Dance' which was copyrighted by Arthur Harrington Gibbs.

The phrase isn't found in print again for some time and reappeared in several newspaper citations in print dating from 1956, for example, this line from Alice Childress' novel Like One of Family:

"You'll find nobody comes down to the nitty-gritty when it calls for namin' things for what they are."

Another is from the Texas newspaper The Daily Journal, in June 1956 and comes from a piece which gave examples of 'the language of 15-year old hepcats':

"She buys, with buffalo heads, ducks to the local flickers, but they prove to be corny and along comes a nitty-grittygator in a cattle train which she hops."

Unfortunately, the Journal didn't include a translation, but I have it on authority of several US contributors of the correct vintage that, in that context, a 'nitty-gritty gator' was a 'lowlife hip dude' and a 'cattle train' was a Cadillac.

It has also been suggested that 'nitty-gritty' refers to head lice, a.k.a. 'nits', or that it refers to ground corn, a.k.a. 'grits', but again, neither of these theories is supported by any hard evidence.

Where it does come from isn't known. It is one of the many phrases that use rhyming reduplication, for example, namby-pamby, willy-nilly etc. It is most likely that the rhyme was formed as a simple extension of the existing US adjective 'gritty', meaning determined or plucky.

 

[Bwian]

It's not true. It is an urban myth. Just because a policeman said it doesn't make it true.

If a policeman said it, it's even less likely to be true.

 

[Juan Albion]

If a policeman said it, it's even less likely to be true.

If a policewoman said it, it's even less likely to be true.

Edna

 

[csider]

NITTY GRITTY NITTY GRITTY......CALL THE PIGS

 

[sir albion]

I would presume any asset players the pikey's have will surely be sold soon and moses to sheff.u looks a bloody good bet soon.

And yeah the joy of pompey and palace in freefall is fantastic news

 

[Martinf]

I'm not very pleased about this as Palace are my second team

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Any turn of phrase that is suspected as being racist is subject to close scrutiny, especially in the USA; hence the euphemistic 'N-word'. Reports that a harmless word like picnic originated as the name of a lynching party only have to be voiced to be taken seriously and become part of folk-etymology.

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005. Had the firm that was conducting the training known that their claims were to reach so wide a public they may have chosen their words more carefully.

The general touchiness over language that might have had a racist origin is enhanced by the ongoing guilt felt by some communities that were formerly involved with the slave trade, for example the English sea-ports of Bristol and Liverpool. In July 2006, Liverpool Council debated the proposal that Penny Lane in Liverpool should be renamed to remove the association with the slave-trader James Penny. This was dismissed as ludicrous by many in the city, but the very fact that the suggestion was made indicates a degree of ongoing unease.

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

The first reference that I can find of the phrase in print is from the New York Catalog of Copyright Entries, Part 3 - Musical Compositions, 1937. That lists a song entitled 'That Nitty Gritty Dance' which was copyrighted by Arthur Harrington Gibbs.

The phrase isn't found in print again for some time and reappeared in several newspaper citations in print dating from 1956, for example, this line from Alice Childress' novel Like One of Family:

"You'll find nobody comes down to the nitty-gritty when it calls for namin' things for what they are."

Another is from the Texas newspaper The Daily Journal, in June 1956 and comes from a piece which gave examples of 'the language of 15-year old hepcats':

"She buys, with buffalo heads, ducks to the local flickers, but they prove to be corny and along comes a nitty-grittygator in a cattle train which she hops."

Unfortunately, the Journal didn't include a translation, but I have it on authority of several US contributors of the correct vintage that, in that context, a 'nitty-gritty gator' was a 'lowlife hip dude' and a 'cattle train' was a Cadillac.

It has also been suggested that 'nitty-gritty' refers to head lice, a.k.a. 'nits', or that it refers to ground corn, a.k.a. 'grits', but again, neither of these theories is supported by any hard evidence.

Where it does come from isn't known. It is one of the many phrases that use rhyming reduplication, for example, namby-pamby, willy-nilly etc. It is most likely that the rhyme was formed as a simple extension of the existing US adjective 'gritty', meaning determined or plucky.

Great, informative post!

 

[pork pie]

I would presume any asset players the pikey's have will surely be sold soon and moses to sheff.u looks a bloody good bet soon.

And yeah the joy of pompey and palace in freefall is fantastic news

Yep, what goes around comes around as they say! Who is getting to take the piss now?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I would'nt wish what happened to us on anyone else.

*edit* except palace... obviously.

 

[pork pie]

I would'nt wish what happened to us on anyone else.

*edit* except palace... obviously.

Yes, but Gillingham is closer for them - how about them going to Southend or somewhere like that?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

So they are free to walk? I can't believe Jordan would be willing to put Palace in that position.

 

[TomTheEagle]

I'll be honest. I want to play you again. You get promoted, we beat you 5-0, you can't go home, you get relegated, we laugh at you again.
I never wanted you to go out of existence in all fairness though. Where's the fun in that?
Cmoooon Torquaaaayyyyyy

 

[Gully]

I'll be honest. I want to play you again. You get promoted, we beat you 5-0, you can't go home, you get relegated, we laugh at you again.
I never wanted you to go out of existence in all fairness though. Where's the fun in that?
Cmoooon Torquaaaayyyyyy

Not many Albion fans would ever want to see the end of Palace, we don't play each other often enough as it is, a life without derby games is almost unthinkable...however, it doesn't stop us from revelling in the somewhat shambolic state of affairs under captain tango.

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm not very pleased about this as Palace are my second team

funny you jest, but i bet they are the second result most look for, even if it is to see that they're lost

So they are free to walk? I can't believe Jordan would be willing to put Palace in that position.

didnt they get paid in the end last month?

 

[dougdeep]

didnt they get paid in the end last month?

No, that's what this thread is about. If they don't pay the players by the 14th they can go on frees.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

I'll be honest. I want to play you again. You get promoted, we beat you 5-0

Just like last time we came to Shitehurst eh?

 

[TomTheEagle]

Just like last time we came to Shitehurst eh?

Jobi McAnuff ring any bells?

 

[dougdeep]

Jobi McAnuff ring any bells?

Were you there? Oh no Palace don't travel.

 

[TomTheEagle]

Were you there? Oh no Palace don't travel.

In our caravans