[Travel] P and O

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Indeed they won't - but when those workers sign-on and claim dole, those same British people will complain bitterly about the escalating welfare bill and the growing number of 'scroungers' that they read about in the Daily Mail. British people really aren't very good at making the 'connections' between unwanted or undesirable events and outcomes.

Quite.

We are addicted to the warm comforting glow of confirmation bias.

(I am quite amused by the Attila thread where folk can't decide whether we are shit because the club stupidly sold Dan Burn or because Potter stupidly keeps picking the wrong team and playing the wrong tactics, or because our players are already 'on the beach', or we should of won all those games we drew, or we were lucky to win all those games we drew, with people, including myself, giving 'thumbs ups' to people with completely opposing views. With this level of contrariness it is no wonder we are ripe to be taken up the wrong-un every now and then by the likes of P&O, and continue to support governments who make it all possible. We get the governments we deserve, sadly).

 

[A1X]

Government knew of P&O Ferries sackings the day before, No 10 admits

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...d-o-ferries-a-new-low-for-shipping-says-union

 

[A1X]

Never fear everyone, Britain’s finest are on it

[tweet]1504868192312872966[/tweet]

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Never fear everyone, Britain’s finest are on it

[tweet]1504868192312872966[/tweet]

Companies like P&O know that the current government is a paper tiger with no global clout

 

[vegster]

Companies like P&O know that the current government is a paper tiger with no global clout

Not even a paper tiger, a government that will happily allow de-regulation to allow companies to fire and re-hire on worse pay and conditions. Hilarious that some Tory MP's are angry about P&O's behaviour when it is straight out of the Tory playbook !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The RMT promoted Brexit. Their members voted for Brexit. I’m very much of the idea you should own your choices and decisions in life. Get over it.

 

[SeagullDubai]

When things blow over there will probably be a few knighthoods for those involved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The RMT promoted Brexit. Their members voted for Brexit. I’m very much of the idea you should own your choices and decisions in life. Get over it.

You've obviously seen the Brexit ballot papers of all 800 staff to know they voted for Brexit ? Equally, not all the 800 are RMT members - there two other unions involved neither of whom promoted Brexit. Finally, as I've already pointed out, UK employment law has not changed since we left - it is still aligned to EU employment law.

I note you haven't condemned P&O's illegal action instead you've attacked the workers losing their jobs - the facarde that you're a socailist is fast falling apart.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You've obviously seen the Brexit ballot papers of all 800 staff to know they voted for Brexit ? Equally, not all the 800 are RMT members - there two other unions involved neither of whom promoted Brexit. Finally, as I've already pointed out, UK employment law has not changed since we left - it is still aligned to EU employment law.

I note you haven't condemned P&O's illegal action instead you've attacked the workers losing their jobs - the facarde that you're a socailist is fast falling apart.

Obviously I have not seen the Brexit ballot papers of the P&O workers but given Hull voted around 67% to leave….I feel I can say with some confidence a majority voted to leave. And if this isn’t the case, and the locals and the RMT where out of touch with the feelings of the workers then the workers should have been shouting from the roof tops about it; their silence is complicity.

As for the illegal action, hiring and firing isn’t illegal. This has been well documented in the past few months as there was a motion to make it so….which was defeated by the Tories. Maybe P&O didn’t follow the correct procedure but it’s all a bit pointless box ticking and doesn’t change the outcome.

And yes, I strongly believe people should own their decisions and choices in life, and more importantly the consequences of these….why not? This seems quite socialist to me.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Obviously I have not seen the Brexit ballot papers of the P&O workers but given Hull voted around 67% to leave….I feel I can say with some confidence a majority voted to leave. And if this isn’t the case, and the locals and the RMT where out of touch with the feelings of the workers then the workers should have been shouting from the roof tops about it; their silence is complicity.

As for the illegal action, hiring and firing isn’t illegal. This has been well documented in the past few months as there was a motion to make it so….which was defeated by the Tories. Maybe P&O didn’t follow the correct procedure but it’s all a bit pointless box ticking and doesn’t change the outcome.

And yes, I strongly believe people should own their decisions and choices in life, and more importantly the consequences of these….why not? This seems quite socialist to me.

Sanctimonious twaddle


Regards
DF

 

[WATFORD zero]

Sanctimonious twaddle


Regards
DF

Well since you're over here on the big board where people generally indulge in responsible discussions, rather than using one line insults, I would be interested to know your view of why P&O have only made the British Seafarers redundant and why French, Dutch and Irish seafarers on the same services haven't also been made redundant ?

 

[highflyer]

Well since you're over here on the big board where people generally indulge in responsible discussions, rather than using one line insults, I would be interested to know your view of why P&O have only made the British Seafarers redundant and why French, Dutch and Irish seafarers on the same services haven't also been made redundant ?

Even the voice of centrist remainers, the Guardian, says that Brexit is a red herring:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/po-ferries-sackings-brexit-uk-eu-employment-law

If I had to guess why UK workers and not French and Dutch, I'd say it's down to the fear of stronger unions and the assumption that they would be supported by a government that has consistently taken the side of (offshore) capital against workers

 

[WATFORD zero]

Even the voice of centrist remainers, the Guardian, says that Brexit is a red herring:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/po-ferries-sackings-brexit-uk-eu-employment-law

If I had to guess why UK workers and not French and Dutch, I'd say it's down to the fear of stronger unions and the assumption that they would be supported by a government that has consistently taken the side of (offshore) capital against workers

Well Brexit was obviously, together with Covid, the reasons for the huge reduction in freight traffic which has resulted in P&O making these redundancies and the previous 1,100 a year ago (and P&O said exactly that in their press releases). But I haven't seen any realistic reasoning for making the British seafarers redundant, but keeping on the French, Dutch and Irish, hence my question ?

I think everyone is guessing at the moment, but maybe we'll find out over the next few weeks

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Even the voice of centrist remainers, the Guardian, says that Brexit is a red herring:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/18/po-ferries-sackings-brexit-uk-eu-employment-law

Regarding the firing possibly, but the company’s perilous financial plight is partly a direct result of Brexit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well Brexit was obviously, together with Covid, the reasons for the huge reduction in freight traffic which has resulted in P&O making these redundancies and the previous 1,100 a year ago (and P&O said exactly that in their press releases). But I haven't seen any realistic reasoning for making the British seafarers redundant, but keeping on the French, Dutch and Irish, hence my question ?

I think everyone is guessing at the moment, but maybe we'll find out over the next few weeks

One argument put forward is that the UK doesn’t have much clout anymore so it’s easy to run roughshod over their laws and, to coin a much used phrase, the UK needs P&O much more than P&O needs them. What exactly can the UK do?

 

[highflyer]

One argument put forward is that the UK doesn’t have much clout anymore so it’s easy to run roughshod over their laws and, to coin a much used phrase, the UK needs P&O much more than P&O needs them. What exactly can the UK do?

I think you are both desperately searching for a brexit angle to be honest.

I don't think you have to look beyond the pandemic and a company owned by an offshore investment group that is determined to squeeze out as much profit as possible and a government that has consistently made clear it wants to encourage this kind of 'investment'. The government was shite and corporations were serewing workers before brexit. The govenment is shite and corporations are screwing workers post brexit. Just maybe Brexit is a symptom not a cause?

I voted to remain, but honestly the endless attempts by some to blame every f*cking thing on Brexit (and those that voted for it) is tedious. And continues to play into the hands of the nationalist right.

 

[METALMICKY]

Apologies if this has been covered but my understanding has always been that you must consult with your employees before finalising any redundancies. If you do not hold genuine and meaningful consultation before making redundancies, employees could claim to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal. In this case en masse!

Is it simply the case that the supposed ' enhanced redundancy packages supposedly being offered are generous enough that they won't bother as too much effort and no financial gain?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think you are both desperately searching for a brexit angle to be honest.

I don't think you have to look beyond the pandemic and a company owned by an offshore investment group that is determined to squeeze out as much profit as possible and a government that has consistently made clear it wants to encourage this kind of 'investment'. The government was shite and corporations were serewing workers before brexit. The govenment is shite and corporations are screwing workers post brexit. Just maybe Brexit is a symptom not a cause?

I voted to remain, but honestly the endless attempts by some to blame every f*cking thing on Brexit (and those that voted for it) is tedious. And continues to play into the hands of the nationalist right.

So, the RMT, the owners of P&O, other ferry operators and even Brexiteer [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] have said that Brexit has played a part in their down turn. This, coupled with the very simple and very clear fact that ferry companies are now routing around the UK as opposed to through it due to customs issues you really don’t think that the P&O’s workers woes are nothing to do with Brexit? For workers of a sector which was having challenges, and coming off the back of the credit crunch, to then vote Brexit was utterly stupid.

I’m not trying to desperately pin this on anything; this really isn’t my problem. I’m merely highlighting what I think is blindingly obvious.

 

[highflyer]

So, the RMT, the owners of P&O, other ferry operators and even Brexiteer [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] have said that Brexit has played a part in their down turn. This, coupled with the very simple and very clear fact that ferry companies are now routing around the UK as opposed to through it due to customs issues you really don’t think that the P&O’s woes are nothing to do with Brexit?

I think it's a symptom not a cause and a (purposeful) distraction from discussions of capital and class and inequality and power. And as you and others on this board have proved to me. It has worked.

But my experience is there is no point trying to pursuade anyone on either extreme, that Brexit isn't the most important thing to have happened ever and the cause of everything good, or bad, that will ever happen in this country. And as I have said, the endless recycling of the same disussion is just so tedious

I'm sorry to have picked this particular discussion and your particular posts to vent my frustration. It's a general frustration, not unique to this board and not personal. But I'm out

 

[Eric the meek]

I think you are both desperately searching for a brexit angle to be honest.

I don't think you have to look beyond the pandemic and a company owned by an offshore investment group that is determined to squeeze out as much profit as possible and a government that has consistently made clear it wants to encourage this kind of 'investment'. The government was shite and corporations were serewing workers before brexit. The govenment is shite and corporations are screwing workers post brexit. Just maybe Brexit is a symptom not a cause?

I voted to remain, but honestly the endless attempts by some to blame every f*cking thing on Brexit (and those that voted for it) is tedious. And continues to play into the hands of the nationalist right.

I voted to remain as well.

I always thought that there would be some successes and some failures for Brexit.

This shocker of a story is an absolute disaster for the 800 British staff affected, both those who voted leave, and those who voted remain.
The idea of 'it would have happened anyway', falls at the first hurdle. Irish, Dutch and French staff are unaffected. That's a clue. Unless you inhabit a parallel universe in which we voted to remain, and P&O still made only the Brits redundant, you have no idea whether 'it would have happened anyway'.

The endless attempts by some people to defend Brexit, in any and all circumstances, is deeply and profoundly ill-judged. There will be success stories for Brexit, but this isn't one of them.