[Cricket] Ollie Robinson suspended by ECB

[Braggfan]

So what you're saying is an allegation of racism and you are banned for life? That is surely the opposite to the message of openness, inclusivity, education, learning etc.

If you think someone should be banned for life, then the message you are sending is no one can be educated, learn or change. So someone would need to decide which message is bullshit or not?

Er no, thats not what i'm saying at all. I'm not sure where you have got that from. I think you might be drawing your own assumptions and meanings.

What I think is that there are 2 issues here.
1) Is Ollie Robinson a changed man.
2) Should there be a zero tolerance for racism in sport.

I think issue 2 is the larger, and more significant issue, and that it has to be addressed in some way.

The fact is I do think Ollie Robinson has changed and matured, and I do think he should be allowed to play for England again. I've never said that he shouldn't. But that t doesn't change the fact the issue 2 is the bigger more significant issue and with that in mind something has to be done.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Well quite, and I don't think thats acceptable either.

So shouldn't they be banned as well then in your view?

What about Gooch or Gatting? Boycott got arrested for alleged domestic abuse but was still a regular voice on TMS.

As I said - where does this all stop? Should Graveney be banned for something he did in the 80s? I mean he was in contravention of UN sanctions after all.

I remember going to the Old Trafford test in 1984 against the Windies. Some of the stuff that was said and done at that game would have made Robinson's comments look pretty tame. I'm sure the press could find a video of that game and get a few people in trouble if they really wanted to.

To my mind this is not really down to what Robinson said 8 years ago - its where you judge the ultimate line should be drawn.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I believe the vast majority of 18 year olds are still posting shit, immature, mildly offensive "jokes" and getting away with it.
This type of behaviour is how a great many socially inept young men, learn what is and isn't acceptable/funny.

You'll note that in this case, it wasn't something that Ollie continued to do throughout his life. (unless I have missed recent updates on this)
I daresay the tweets did not elicit the sort of kudos he originally thought they might.
Or maybe they did and he was secretly embarrassed at himself and decided against continuing.
Either way I think it is more pertinent to judge the man on his current thoughts/behaviours than of his 18 year old self.

If the ECB find a longer running unpleasant side to the lad, then fair play, punish away.
But I would imagine their original due diligence would have spotted any such red flags.

I agree it’s best to judge people on the way they are now, I really do. I do also believe in forgiveness. But I also feel we are responsible for all our actions. It’s a balancing act, which isn’t always easy, but all things considered I feel there still needs to be a punitive element to this situation.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Er no, thats not what i'm saying at all. I'm not sure where you have got that from. I think you might be drawing your own assumptions and meanings.

What I think is that there are 2 issues here.
1) Is Ollie Robinson a changed man.
2) Should there be a zero tolerance for racism in sport.

I think issue 2 is the larger, and more significant issue, and that it has to be addressed in some way.

The fact is I do think Ollie Robinson has changed and matured, and I do think he should be allowed to play for England again. I've never said that he shouldn't. But that t doesn't change the fact the issue 2 is the bigger more significant issue and with that in mind something has to be done.

You said Craig Overton shouldn't have been in the squad either.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Boycott got arrested for alleged domestic abuse but was still a regular voice on TMS.

.

The Geoff Boycott who was convicted of domestic abuse. The Geoff Boycott who hit a woman 20 times. The Geoff Boycott whose conduct at the trial the judge described as arrogant and deplorabe.

 

[amexer]

Difficult one but if outcome for everyone in public eye that puts up abusive threads however long ago is to be forgiven after apologising it will never solve the problem. I personally know of no one I know who would put up that type of comment even when they were 19

 

[Publius Ovidius]

So shouldn't they be banned as well then in your view?

What about Gooch or Gatting? Boycott got arrested for alleged domestic abuse but was still a regular voice on TMS.

As I said - where does this all stop? Should Graveney be banned for something he did in the 80s? I mean he was in contravention of UN sanctions after all.

I remember going to the Old Trafford test in 1984 against the Windies. Some of the stuff that was said and done at that game would have made Robinson's comments look pretty tame. I'm sure the press could find a video of that game and get a few people in trouble if they really wanted to.

To my mind this is not really down to what Robinson said 8 years ago - its where you judge the ultimate line should be drawn.

I think current thinking is that there is no line and people are fair game no matter how long ago. BLM has brought to the fore wether you agree or not a view that we are all responsible for the “ sins of our fathers”.

8 years, 80 years, 800 years.....the Persians were complete ******** to the Greeks 3000 years ago, the Egyptians enslaved the whole race now known as Jews as well as countless African peoples. The Romans butchered every living thing including animals and plants in Libya/Tunisia - Carthage...and enslaved any race that wasn’t pure Roman born. They practically killed everyone in Spain/Portugal and sent thousands down mines and left them there to die.. European empires enslaved most of the known world. Spanish conquistadors liquidated whole peoples in the name of Christianity.

In the name of being ethnically correct, people are being selective in how they view the world....read some of the stuff on England CC boards today about Robinson from sub continent cricket “fans”. For god sake India has a caste system operating now!

Personally I believe he posted some stupid crap like a lot of teenagers do, he was found out, apologised and was remorseful and now the papers see this as a great way to sell their papers. I am also not sure how helpful Roots comments were either.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Robinson never plays for England again and is ditched by Sussex ...for something he said as a kid.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Surely all the moaning about the ECB being too harsh should wait until after they've actually announced their conclusions? If for no other reason than to keep your powder dry for when they pull something truly ludicrous out of the bag.

I don't view missing a single match for having a load of racist/sexist posts on your twitter account unreasonable. Clearly this should have been picked up earlier by Sussex or the ECB, but ultimately Robinson has to take responsibility for posts on his own social media.

If there's nothing else to find and he is a better, more mature man as claimed, then that should be the end of it. If he is actually racist or sexist then I don't want him anywhere near Sussex either, but there's not currently any evidence that that is the case.

Dowden shut keep his trap shut until the disciplinary process has finished and the full facts and any punishment are known.

 

[Braggfan]

You said Craig Overton shouldn't have been in the squad either.

Apologies, I thought you were still talking about Robinson.

In fairness maybe I'm being overly harsh with Overton, because I don't like him and I think he said it. There was a lot of corroborative evidence, and he was punished for it.

I don't like him, and I don't want him to play for England, but I recognise that's only my opionion.

He says that he didn't do it, he says thats not who he is, and he says that its wrong. Is that very different from Robinson? I do think people should get second chances if they change or are sorry, and they have been sanctioned for the initial action. I guess it would be hypocritical to say he should have a life time ban. He has recieved a punishment and codemns racist behaviour now. Under those circumstances should he have the opportunity to play for England again? Yes. Do I like him? No.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Its not ridiculous at all. This is a bigger issue than whether Ollie Robinson is a changed man. You can't sit there and say that we need zero tolerance on racism, and then find loopholes to let instances go unpunished. It might have been 8 or 9 years ago, but if you don't do anything then it's not zero tolerance, its some tolerance for racism.

Really?
Have you seen the tweets?

from what I've seen there are 4 tweets.

A couple of shit, mildly racist, jokes,made by a, clearly embarrassingly immature, 18 year old.
And a couple of mildly misogynistic tweets.(one of which I'm still struggling to understand what point he was making and whether it was sexist or not)

So basically 2 shit jokes/puns about Asians having different eyes and some Muslims being terrorists, is the sum total of this young man's racism.
If there are moe, then please enlighten me, but that's all I've seen thus far.

Had he retweeted anti-BLM memes over the past couple of years, then, yeah fair enough, zero-tolerance to your hearts content.
But from what I've seen this is not the case.

It just ends up feeding the "These days if you say your British you get locked up" trolls rhetoric.

 

[Braggfan]

Really?
Have you seen the tweets?

from what I've seen there are 4 tweets.

A couple of shit, mildly racist, jokes,made by a, clearly embarrassingly immature, 18 year old.
And a couple of mildly misogynistic tweets.(one of which I'm still struggling to understand what point he was making and whether it was sexist or not)

So basically 2 shit jokes/puns about Asians having different eyes and some Muslims being terrorists, is the sum total of this young man's racism.
If there are moe, then please enlighten me, but that's all I've seen thus far.

Had he retweeted anti-BLM memes over the past couple of years, then, yeah fair enough, zero-tolerance to your hearts content.
But from what I've seen this is not the case.

It just ends up feeding the "These days if you say your British you get locked up" trolls rhetoric.

I think using the N word is signficant enough

edit: I don't think you've seen all of them

 

[A1X]

Personally, I'm with Vish

[tweet]1401835740183642118[/tweet]

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I think using the N word is signficant enough

edit: I don't think you've seen all of them

Yeah sounds like I have missed some.

I'll reserve judgement until I've seen the content of all of his tweets, in that case.
To be brutally honest though, I think the embarrassment of having the world know how much of a **** you were at 18 is punishment enough.
Not something I would like to endure.

 

[Brovion]

It's the modern day pillory, people need to see the pound of flesh.

I'm with everyone else and think it's ridiculous but in the long run they're probably doing him a favour. Without an official punishment under his belt you just know some kind of race related pressure group will pick up on it and instigate their own punishment, especially if he does well as a player and becomes more high profile.

Exactly. It's a ridiculous OTT punishment that only the most puritanical zealot can possibly think matches the crime. Still hopefully now they've had their pound of flesh they'll be happy and won't be on his case for the rest of his career - or indeed his life. Meanwhile those of us who yearn for a world of peace, love and understanding realise it's further away than ever.

The real scumbags here are the people who obviously knew about the tweets (I didn't) and then gleefully waited until revealing them could do the maximum amount of damage to him.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Haven't the ECB got previous on this with Ben Stokes?

I seem to remember they insisted on doing their own "investigation" after he was found not guilty by a court of law for allegedly banjoeing that guy in a nightclub?

He was suspended for God knows how long for that and was found not guilty in a morning.....

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Strange that the current Prime Minister can make a racist joke and get away with it, but a cricketer who as an imature 18 year old, brought up in a much more diverse area than
we live in, gets hauled over the coals.

 

[Brovion]

I agree it’s best to judge people on the way they are now, I really do. I do also believe in forgiveness. But I also feel we are responsible for all our actions. It’s a balancing act, which isn’t always easy, but all things considered I feel there still needs to be a punitive element to this situation.

Never had you down as one of the "hang 'em and flog 'em" brigade.

 

[Eeyore]

Personally, I'm with Vish

[tweet]1401835740183642118[/tweet]

Joe Fallon has an interesting point of discussion. I find myself with much to say about the way that this is being played out. I also find myself uncomfortable that people I know to have a current racial bias in agreement with me.

 

[Surf's Up]

He has to say that bearing in mind what his boss has said in the past and got away with! Whilst his tweets were wrong, even I as a snowflake lefty do also think Robinson has been overly harshly treated.

As an aside, the lives of these people who forensically go trough decade old social media posts from teenagers must be incredibly miserable.

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know the source of the well timed leak?

 

[Springal]

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know the source of the well timed leak?

I can't remember it, but it was fairly easy to find. Was a graduate journalist who just scrolled through his social media during the morning session