O/T: Bush vs. Kerry Round Two

[US Seagull]

Second presidential debate tonight.
Bush will be hoping to recover from the disaster of the first debate. If he doesn't put in a glowing performance, it could be all over [crosses fingers]. Kerry was solid in the first debate, more of the same should do the job.
The polls since the first debate have shown Kerry getting a boost with most polls putting the candidates neck-and-neck. The vice presidental debate on Tuesday was essentially a draw which helped slow the Kerry tickets momentum a little. It's all riding on round two.
John, Finish him! (Please)

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Thought the vice-presidential debate was massively entertaining

Bit of the same bare-knuckle fighting tonight would be marvellous

 

[Albion Rob]

I've been told that things should be pretty level again with Kerry again making Bush look like an inarticulate fool without landing any killer blows.

However, I understand the third debate is on domestic issues and Kerry is set to trounce him.

Good.

 

[CAFC Matt]

Bush won't get back in in America and Blair won't get back in Britain. Simple

 

[London Irish]

Beware the spin after the debate. The rightwing US media spun the Cheney-Edwards fight as even, yet a poll of independent voters gave it 2-1 to Edwards, a crushing margin.

Just because Cheney did better than the pathetic Bush, it was spun as "even", which was nonsense.

I predict the same will happen tonight, Bush will be better (he couldn't be worse) and Fox and sundry rightwing media commentators will spin this as a victory for Bush.

Thankfully, there are hopeful signs that US voters for once aren't swallowing this bullshit - let's hope.

 

[Man of Harveys]

How much are these debates really worth? I saw one of them in the build up to George W getting elected and I thought he looked every bit the gibbering unelectable halfwit that high office eventually proved him to be. Didn't stop him getting elected though (and IMHO the average American voter isn't actually THAT much more stupid than the typical Sun reader that swings elections here).

 

[Uncle Buck]

Bush won't get back in in America and Blair won't get back in Britain. Simple

Blair not to retain power here will be impressive. No credible opposition, a huge majority and a FPTP electoral system kind of means at least another term for Labour and if they get in with 100+ majority, the chance are another term after that.

 

[CAFC Matt]

Blair not to retain power here will be impressive. No credible opposition, a huge majority and a FPTP electoral system kind of means at least another term for Labour and if they get in with 100+ majority, the chance are another term after that.

True actually. Still he can't really ruin the country much more can he

 

[London Irish]

True actually. Still he can't really ruin the country much more can he

Another goldfish-memory who's forgotten 18 years of Thatcherism.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Another goldfish-memory who's forgotten 18 years of Thatcherism.

Bearing in mind he is only 18 or 19 there is no need to have a go at him, he probably did not live through most of it and he is allowed a different opinion to you.

 

[CAFC Matt]

Another goldfish-memory who's forgotten 18 years of Thatcherism.

Only 19 so don't understand/Remeber Thatcher and no one has ever bothered to explain it all to me. Going by my own experience Blair has bollocked up big time

 

[US Seagull]

How much are these debates really worth? I saw one of them in the build up to George W getting elected and I thought he looked every bit the gibbering unelectable halfwit that high office eventually proved him to be. Didn't stop him getting elected though (and IMHO the average American voter isn't actually THAT much more stupid than the typical Sun reader that swings elections here).

Well, with the last election Gore made the mistake in the first debate of visibly showing the contempt he had for Bush, that didn't play well with the viewers. In an attempt to make up for it the next debate (and the VP debate) was one massive lovefest which really didn't help either. So although Bush looked like a gibbering dullard he managed to come out of the debates looking good. A large part of the Bush stategy was to lower expectations before the debates so the fact he managed to string together a whole sentence was considered a major victory. Gore "misunderestimated" him.
He couldn't get away with it this time around because people are expecting him to have grown and matured after 4 years in office. At the first debate this time around he looked like a whiney ("It's hard work"), pouting kid.
Also remember that in 2000 nobody was really that interested in the election. Nobody thought there was much difference in the candidates and either one would be mostly fine. Boy, were they ever wrong!! This time around I think we can expect record turnout.

 

[US Seagull]

Thought the vice-presidential debate was massively entertaining

Bit of the same bare-knuckle fighting tonight would be marvellous

I thought so too. I thought it was very close but it wasn't for a lack of hard punches being thrown by both men. There was probably blood on the floor at the end.

 

[US Seagull]

Beware the spin after the debate. The rightwing US media spun the Cheney-Edwards fight as even, yet a poll of independent voters gave it 2-1 to Edwards, a crushing margin.

I believe the CBS poll of "undecided" voters gave the debate to Edwards, but the ABC poll of "likely" voters gave it to Cheney.
It might be the case that Cheney just played much better with his own base but not much outside of it (the ABC poll had slightly more registered Republicans). If that is the case then Edwards really did well by reaching the undecideds while Cheney did well by calming the conservative base who were all in a tizzy after the first presidential debate. In that case I think both sides can claim they did what they came to do. Edwards convinced people he could be president if required and Cheney convinced people that Bush could be!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

True actually. Still he can't really ruin the country much more can he

This Labour government is doing very very well on domestic issues. Introduction of the minimum wage would never have happened under a Tory regime for instance. The tragedy is that B.Liar's government could reduce unemployment to zero, inflation rate to zero, NHS waiting lists to zero, and in the end it would all be forgotten. He'd still be the Prime Minister that embarked on an illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq against the express wishes of the majority of the electorate, our European neighbours and the United Nations. And all to play poodle to the most reactionary gang of right-Wing U.S. yahoos the world has ever seen.

The sooner Labour ditch B.Liar, the sooner the good good people in the party will regain the trust of the electorate.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Tis true Tom.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Having not lived here for 18 months & then using the transport system this week I am impressed with how things have got better while I've been away. Problem for Labour is that change hasn't been dramatic so people don't notice. Let me tell you. the change is dramatic IMO.

The war is a different issue. People will make their own mind up there. BUT, on domestic issues Labour have done a very good job

 

[bigc]

i agree. Labour have done good things, like tom mentioned

dont forget signing up for the human rights act. that was a positive step too.

and they have tried to pump alot of money into education

 

[London Irish]

Bearing in mind he is only 18 or 19 there is no need to have a go at him, he probably did not live through most of it and he is allowed a different opinion to you.

Where the hell did it say he wasn't allowed a different opinion to me? I was just saying his opinion was uniformed and therefore pretty useless, which is my right I think you'll find.

 

[London Irish]

I believe the CBS poll of "undecided" voters gave the debate to Edwards, but the ABC poll of "likely" voters gave it to Cheney.
It might be the case that Cheney just played much better with his own base but not much outside of it (the ABC poll had slightly more registered Republicans). If that is the case then Edwards really did well by reaching the undecideds while Cheney did well by calming the conservative base who were all in a tizzy after the first presidential debate. In that case I think both sides can claim they did what they came to do. Edwards convinced people he could be president if required and Cheney convinced people that Bush could be!

Yes, I agree with all of that, but I wouldn't have taken much to raise the expectations of the Republicans, they were pretty desolate after Bush's performance The ABC poll was less important simply because these debates are mainly interesting in terms of what effect they have on the undecideds.