Northern Ireland

[Wellesley]

"Irish Travellers" are about as Irish as my Polish built car is, if you believe their claimed origin story. I'd be pretty certain that they're all British citizens, though.

Thanks for a fun evening. I do admire your grasp of our language. Nighty-night.

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

British because people were planted. At some point in the not too distant future it will be handed back, gracefully. Then we all move on like the equals we are.

not in your lifetime

 

[Hampster Gull]

not in your lifetime

I remember traveling with some West Germans in the Colorado in 1988 who were adamant that German unification wouldnt happen in their lifetime

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Just beginning to wonder that myself?

It must be terribly disappointing for them (and others) that most Catholics in Northern Ireland now want to remain in the UK. All those years spent supporting a United Ireland and associating with terrorists ... shame.

 

[Eeyore]

A lot wasn't actually enough though was it

when it came to independance

It was. Scotland remained in the Union. What they wanted.

It doesn't mean they all see themselves as British. It just means they want the UK, the political entity, to remain as it is.

 

[The Birdman]

Should we give the Falklands to Argentina while we're at it?

The only people who should make any kind of decision are the Northern Irish themselves - they should not be seen as ours to 'give' to anyone.

Or Gilbralter to the Spanish!

 

[London Irish]

No. Its an economic basket-case that almost makes our government look solvent by comparison (although we did actually have a primary surplus last year) with extremely high unemployment and permanent disability figures as well as a far higher proportion of public sector workers. We'd be back to the IMFs arms within weeks.

Tesco - who have very, very few stores there compared to their prevelance in both GB and ROI - are the second largest private sector employer. Says rather a lot about the state of the economy there. Had an industrial sector that was the envy of ROI until the 1980s but it is all but gone.

Everyone knows the 6C has deep economic problems but the 26C washing their hands of them isn't going to work either, it's not going to help either economy in the long run. In a few short years the politics are going to be a lot calmer and sensible economic decisions will have to be taken - it's clearly a nonsense that the island of Ireland has two currency systems. We will we see much more integration steps curtesy of the EU and the politics will eventually follow the economics.

Uinionism is durable movement among working class protestants but the economic conditions of its existence, discriminatory access to jobs and housing, are last century stuff. The DUP can now only offer UKIP bigotry and austerity to their own supporters, that ain't going to fly too far in the decades to come. New solutions will be sought to Northern Ireland's deadbeat economy and there will be political realignment.

 

[London Irish]

Ulster consists of 9 counties, 3 of which have been in the Republic of Ireland and predecessor states since 1922. I'm from one of those 3.

As is my family. My mother remembers Paisley crossing the border to preach to her Protestant friends in the 1950s. No inkling back then of the shit he would stir up, everyone got on.

Donegal has always been a microcosm of what a united Ireland would look like - it's majority Catholic but the quarter-ish+ Protestant community are probably the most economically vibrant part of the population, disproptionately owning businesses and farms. Always been left alone to make their money and live their lives.

 

[Brovion]

One of the things that always pisses me off is no one ever asks the English what we think. The debates are always framed from the other nation's perspective as the assumption is always that England = Britain and that we've all got the mindset of Plantagenet kings, desperate to acquire and maintain whatever territory we can. The worst, probably only bad, thing about Scottish independence was that we were going to be left with some dreadful rump UK of us, the Welsh and Northern Ireland - taking Ulster with them should be part of the Scots separation deal. Maybe I'm in a minority of English people with this view, but of course we'll never know.

With regard to Ireland itself if I have to pick a side (which I do so reluctantly) I've always been what's called a 'Republican sympathiser'. Consequently it's slightly galling to see that with the murder of Mr Ismay it's now the Unionists who appear to be the progressive people (progressive by Ulster standards that is) and the Republicans who are still the twisted bigots intent on shedding blood for an ancient, irrelevant cause..

 

[de la zouch]

As is my family. My mother remembers Paisley crossing the border to preach to her Protestant friends in the 1950s. No inkling back then of the shit he would stir up, everyone got on.

Donegal has always been a microcosm of what a united Ireland would look like - it's majority Catholic but the quarter-ish+ Protestant community are probably the most economically vibrant part of the population, disproptionately owning businesses and farms. Always been left alone to make their money and live their lives.

How thoroughly nice of them to let them be left alone to make their money and live their lives - your absolute bigotry always shines like a beacon!

 

[sydney]

How thoroughly nice of them to let them be left alone to make their money and live their lives - your absolute bigotry always shines like a beacon!

i say .....steady on old boy...!!

 

[Brighton Mod]

It's good to have a healthy debate on the above, from people looking in on the outside, but it's the NI folk that ultimately have to live with decision.
I think there should be a serious referendum on the subject, and NI given the right to self govern along the Scottish route.

No point in a referendum, the answer is not difficult to find if you know even a small amount of history on the place. Does the South even want to take the North into its governance and can the South even afford it. Its a non starter, like giving the Falkland Islanders a referendum the majority will want to remain British.

 

[AmexRuislip]

No point in a referendum, the answer is not difficult to find if you know even a small amount of history on the place. Does the South even want to take the North into its governance and can the South even afford it. Its a non starter, like giving the Falkland Islanders a referendum the majority will want to remain British.

If you read post #9, and read, you have my answer!
My SMALL idea on history relates to my grandad coming from Dublin, my uncle serving in NI during the 70's and me having spent sometime in Falklands.

 

[oneillco]

Eventually the Catholic population will outnumber the Protestant. Things will probably change. The most important thing is that people are mature about it. That area of land belongs to those who live there, we have no ownership rights. Relationships between the communities is the top priority, not the system of governance. Great strides have been made in recent times.

Well said; all this "Ulster is British" tosh is a mindset that belongs to dinosaurs. One thing I would say though is that religion is gradually becoming less important particularly as the people of Rep. of Ireland are moving away from the Catholic church and into a more secular European society.

 

[oneillco]

the very marches where British people can't walk down a certain street that's actually in the United Kingdom

But why do they still have to march down a street reminding the people who live down there that their ancestors took a hiding 300 years ago? I would get pissed off if 2,000 Palace fans marched through Brighton every year to rub our noses in it about the play-off final defeat...

 

[Eeyore]

Well said; all this "Ulster is British" tosh is a mindset that belongs to dinosaurs. One thing I would say though is that religion is gradually becoming less important particularly as the people of Rep. of Ireland are moving away from the Catholic church and into a more secular European society.

I agree. Far from joining the south, my view is that Northern Ireland will become more autonomous in itself.

 

[oneillco]

But why do they still have to march down a street reminding the people who live down there that their ancestors took a hiding 300 years ago? I would get pissed off if 2,000 Palace fans marched through Brighton every year to rub our noses in it about the play-off final defeat...

I of course meant semi-final defeat

 

[London Irish]

How thoroughly nice of them to let them be left alone to make their money and live their lives - your absolute bigotry always shines like a beacon!

Well the contrast was a few miles over the border where for well over a century the Catholic population of northern Ireland were discriminated against when it came to being hired for jobs in places like the shipyards, were discriminated against when it came to being allowed access to council housing, had their votes disenfranchised by the creation of gerrymandered electoral districts and were generally harrassed by an all-Protestant police force and army reservist force.

You should go and take a look at peaceful, tranquil Donegal by contrast. Would be the best cure for your own obvious anti-Irish bigotry.

 

[de la zouch]

Well the contrast was a few miles over the border where for well over a century the Catholic population of northern Ireland were discriminated against when it came to being hired for jobs in places like the shipyards, were discriminated against when it came to being allowed access to council housing, had their votes disenfranchised by the creation of gerrymandered electoral districts and were generally harrassed by an all-Protestant police force and army reservist force.

You should go and take a look at peaceful, tranquil Donegal by contrast. Would be the best cure for your own obvious anti-Irish bigotry.

Absolutely no anti Irish bigotry here, pointing out your obvious bigotry does not in anyway make me an anti Irish bigot.
I am not sure of neither do I care to enquire about your ancestry, but as my mother and thus circa 50% of my family are from Ireland you Sir have missed the target by a country mile