[Cricket] New Zealand vs. England 2nd Test Cello Basin Reserve, Wellington

[jakarta]

As per the post I just made. Maybe I am being a bit negative but our batting has been on some really flat pitches and I fear that the Aussies will go after leach. If that happens and we have a three man attack who hardly get a breather because our innings don’t last long then I worry about a summer in the field!

Stokes is a massive worry. He has revolutionised how we play but he is getting close to brearley (one for the kids there) in terms of specialist captain!

As posted previously, he will almost certainly not send down over after over anymore, but his batting and captaincy will keep him in the team.

Brearley couldn't bat or bowl but had a fiendish cricketing brain as well as the ability to get performances out of those who could!

 

[A1X]

England were two runs away from a first winter clean sweep in tests since 1896 (when there were only two tests).

I think the idea there's a crisis is somewhat overblown. I think one of the things we've seen with "Bazball" era England is they learn lessons, I suspect lessons will be learnt from this around following on, chasing a total when it's tight etc.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Blimey some negative stuff on here. The whole point of Bazball is to aggressively play for the win and there are associated risks with that, the win loss column has clearly favoured that approach. Not only that the cricket has been hugely entertaining and yet again Test Cricket has shown the shorter form of the game what real sport really is.

I should be gutted that at 3.30 am or whenever it was we finally succumbed to the final wicket, but I am not. That was a fantastic night/morning's entertainment. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but whilst I agree the decision to enforce the follow on was flawed I'll not criticise Stokes for it, they'll use this experience to move on to the Ashes.

Also won't anyone credit New Zealand for hanging in there when it looks like they were in for a real hiding against a cricketing juggernaut. The Black Caps were fantastic in the 3rd and 4th innings and a defeat for them would have been every bit as gutting for them as it was for us, they should enjoy this one, they played superbly.

What a winter it has been for marvellous Test Cricket.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Lessons will always be learnt but I don’t think it was a mistake to enforce the follow-on. Given the same circumstances I reckon Stokes would do the same again. It’s only in hindsight people are criticising the decision. It was a no brainer at the time and credit should be given to New Zealand for the fight back. The fact that the side following-on has only won 4 times in history tells us that it was the right decision, imho.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Lessons will always be learnt but I don’t think it was a mistake to enforce the follow-on. Given the same circumstances I reckon Stokes would do the same again. It’s only in hindsight people are criticising the decision. It was a no brainer at the time and credit should be given to New Zealand for the fight back. The fact that the side following-on has only won 4 times in history tells us that it was the right decision, imho.

Exactly…..having read quotes from Stokes he almost certainly would have/will do the same again…I feel heartened by the way England players have spoken/ shown themselves in defeat.

I cracking game that has been a great advertisement for Test cricket…and let’s give NZ a lot of credit!

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and there have been many events over the 5 days where one could say "yeah but, if only".

In respect of the the follow on enforcement there are countless imponderables but IF we could have batted a couple of sessions and got a lead of 500 and IF NZ had batted as well we probably would have witnessed a boring draw. IF only the ump had wided the penultimate ball every one would have been happy with a tie.

Ho-hum, it is was it is, we move on ...

Personally, I'd take a nail-biting narrow defeat over a boring draw for the good of test cricket.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Magnificent game. Well played Stokes, McCullum et al - brilliant entertainment. Yes of course I would have preferred if we’d won by 1 wicket and a tie would have been great too but I genuinely believe cricket is the real victor. Drama, real sporting drama, is the best and we certainly had it in spades. Brilliant!

please note that I don’t apply exactly the same criteria where our beloved football team are concerned!

 

[A1X]

Lessons will always be learnt but I don’t think it was a mistake to enforce the follow-on. Given the same circumstances I reckon Stokes would do the same again. It’s only in hindsight people are criticising the decision. It was a no brainer at the time and credit should be given to New Zealand for the fight back. The fact that the side following-on has only won 4 times in history tells us that it was the right decision, imho.

Exactly, sometimes you just have to congratulate the opposition for doing well.

Except Australia. Never, ever congratulate Australia.

 

[Berty23]

Re bazball - did we actually play it today? Was this our slowest scoring innings for sometime? Today got a bit defensive again.

I am not being negative. I am looking at where we can improve. We need five bowlers with the two old men in the team and the tail is weak. Maybe they will look at buttler or bairstow for foakes and then free up a batting spot for someone who can bowl like collingwood? Abell or someone like that.

It is a brilliant time to be an England cricket fan but not looking at where we can improve seems a bit shortsighted.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Brilliant cricket. Well done Stokesy for going for the win and well done NZ for just shading the match.

Let's just do it all properly when the Aussies are in town eh?

Long live test cricket

 

[dazzer6666]

Blimey some negative stuff on here. The whole point of Bazball is to aggressively play for the win and there are associated risks with that, the win loss column has clearly favoured that approach. Not only that the cricket has been hugely entertaining and yet again Test Cricket has shown the shorter form of the game what real sport really is.

I should be gutted that at 3.30 am or whenever it was we finally succumbed to the final wicket, but I am not. That was a fantastic night/morning's entertainment. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but whilst I agree the decision to enforce the follow on was flawed I'll not criticise Stokes for it, they'll use this experience to move on to the Ashes.

Also won't anyone credit New Zealand for hanging in there when it looks like they were in for a real hiding against a cricketing juggernaut. The Black Caps were fantastic in the 3rd and 4th innings and a defeat for them would have been every bit as gutting for them as it was for us, they should enjoy this one, they played superbly.

What a winter it has been for marvellous Test Cricket.

Spot on. Losing by the tiniest of margins in a simply brilliant game of cricket is OK with me.

 

[The Fits]

A lot of us love test cricket, but it is a dying sport. Feels like and Baz and Stokes have said 'now or never. Either we do something drastic or this form of the game is finished'. So far it's working. Could potentially be a complete revolution of the longer form.

 

[Audax]

We won an Ashes getting someone caught behind who’s hand was off the bat, so we’ll have to take a wide not being called on the chin.

And that Stokes / Leach match, where Stokes should have been LBW (but Aussies were out of reviews and the umpire gave it not out).

(Before anyone bites - I blame the Aussies for that one, wasting their last review on a slim chance out of desperation).

 

[Audax]

Australia aren't necessarily a team to be feared at the moment though either, they have their own deficiencies especially away from home.

Yup. Aussies aren't a side to be feared at the moment. I think Warner is done at the top of the order, but I suspect he wants to play through the Ashes before retiring and the selectors will be daft enough to give him that.

Smith isn't at his best. Khawaja has reinvented himself as a test opener, but I think lacks the consistency. Labuschagne is, like Smith, off the boil a bit. No doubt the selectors will look to bring Green back in but he doesn't convince me as Test #6. An Ashes top 6 of Warner, Khawaja, Labuschagne, Smith, Head, Green is most likely and I'm not confident that'll be enough. Carey at 7 yet to establish himself as a genuine batting W/K as well.

Bowling wise we've got a lot of depth, but that depth is being sorely tested currently with the number of players out injured.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Superb entertainment.

 

[Berty23]

what would people pick as a composite bowling attack if the two sides?

I would go
Green (over stokes)
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon
Then you have Jimmy/Robinson/Broad

Could be a low scoring summer but it will be fun.

In related news - anyone watched the next series of “the test” on Amazon? Cummins and Lyon (can’t stand him on the pitch) seem like top fellas. Warner not so much. Smith and labu obsessed. Head seems a good bloke too.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I watched the last hour live and my thoughts are these:

1. Congratulations to New Zealand for winning from the follow-on, such a gutsy display.
2. If Bracewell had not made a hash of the Foakes chance on the boundary NZ would have won by a reasonably comfortable margin.
3. The umpire has had an absolute shocker with the Jimmy Anderson wide. He'd correctly called previous wides and no-balls but bottled this one. It cost England a series win. I think Anderson was momentarily confused, and that then led to his poor shot the following ball. And as for the Kiwi pundit who said the umpire was right not to call it because it was no way to end a series - bollocks, if it's a wide by some margin it needs to be called, regardless of the situation.

 

[Audax]

what would people pick as a composite bowling attack if the two sides?

I would go
Green (over stokes)
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon
Then you have Jimmy/Robinson/Broad

Could be a low scoring summer but it will be fun.

In related news - anyone watched the next series of “the test” on Amazon? Cummins and Lyon (can’t stand him on the pitch) seem like top fellas. Warner not so much. Smith and labu obsessed. Head seems a good bloke too.

For the coming Ashes, I'd have Jimmy ahead of Hazelwood. I'd also put Boland in the mix with Robinson and Broad.

How about a full composite of the two sides?

Head (he's filling in for Warner [injured] in India)
Khawaja
Labuschagne
Root / Smith (on full record, I'd take Smith, on current form I'd take Root)
Brooks
Stokes / Green (if priority is batting, Stokes, otherwise Green)
Foakes
Cummins
Lyon
Hazelwood
Anderson

The other route to go down is to change the team balance. If you've got the cream of the bowlers from both sides, and are happy to take some overs from a batter who bowls a bit if needed (Labu, Root), then you could leave out the all rounder and have this:

Head
Khawaja
Labuschagne
Root
Smith
Brooks
Foakes
Cummins
Lyon
Hazelwood
Anderson

 

[dangull]

A lot of us love test cricket, but it is a dying sport. Feels like and Baz and Stokes have said 'now or never. Either we do something drastic or this form of the game is finished'. So far it's working. Could potentially be a complete revolution of the longer form.

I like Test cricket, but in the modern day I can see why its lost some interest in some countries due to one day 50 over matches and the 20/20s
I cant think of another sport that runs for 5 days and the end result can end in a draw, sometimes due to weather or pitches that are too friendly to the batsmen to get 20 wickets for one side. Also most people can not watch it all the time due to work etc.
It seems the majority white countries still have good crowds for Test cricket, but the Asian countries and West Indies are often played with less than full grounds.

 

[Triggaaar]

Sorry but the Bazball decision to enforce the follow on was wrong (even if we had won). Anderson and Broad need an innings rest between bowling

Anderson bowled 10 overs, and Broad 14, and that was with breaks in play, so they weren't knackered after a long innings in the field.

as proven by the fact that between them they took 7 wickets in the first innings and only 1 in the 2nd.

That's not proof, that's just how it went. They were not tired when they started the 2nd innings.