Neo Nazi = Neo Apologists?

[coventrygull]

I watched Irving disappear into the river in Oxford once. Very funny.
Coventry: Lewisham? Welling? Waterloo? Did AFA make you see the error of your ways?
You're right about Searchlight.

AFA were a load of old wank mate. Having a go at a load of sad boneheads and bashing the odd pensioners. Well hard blokes my arse. Funny how they never touched the really nasty guys.

 

[coventrygull]

I hope you are not accusing me of being "new age"! I prefer to think of myself as "personally enlightened" - I gave up believing party lines and other people's doctrines a long time ago, despite what the uniform might tell you! Sedition in the ranks? Quite possibly, but I couldn't comment......

Hope your not saying I still follow doctrine. As the buddha says "I am like a raft that you use to cross the river once on the other side like the raft I am no longer needed"

 

[Lammy]

A sad day for freedom of speech when a man can go to prison in Western Europe not for something he has done but for something he has said.

Sickening.

 

[looney]

Isn't it great to him wriggling all mealy-mouthed, under so much pressure?

That's Looney, not you Irving

Wriggling? OK, So do you think Scottish Immigration to Ulster has been a success? I take it you must approve.


I wonder if you'll wriggle of again after Ive asked this question for the 4th yime.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

A sad day for freedom of speech when a man can go to prison in Western Europe not for something he has done but for something he has said.

Sickening.

I agree. It's appalling that covert filming and taping, which is almost entrapment, can lead to a prosecution. People should have the absolute right to publicly voice their opinions, and to encourage others to adopt and then follow them, even though it may be inflammatory and inciting.

Free Abu Hamza now!
Keep Nick Griffin out of prison!

Or did you just mean Irving?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Hope your not saying I still follow doctrine. As the buddha says "I am like a raft that you use to cross the river once on the other side like the raft I am no longer needed"

I always found that the raft sank midstream. Better to swim.

 

[Lammy]

I agree. It's appalling that covert filming and taping, which is almost entrapment, can lead to a prosecution. People should have the absolute right to publicly voice their opinions, and to encourage others to adopt and then follow them, even though it may be inflammatory and inciting.

Free Abu Hamza now!
Keep Nick Griffin out of prison!

Or did you just mean Irving?

By that same token you are suggesting that the Danish cartoonist should be locked up too?

I don't think Nick Griffin should go to prison for simply saying that he hates *insert ethnic minority here* either. If he was involved in attacks on *insert ethnic minority here* or was part of organising such attacks then fine lock him up. I don't really know about the evidence against him as I wasn't part of the Jury. Abu Hamza was a recruiting agent for terrorists. He wasn't arrested simply for what he said. He was arrested for actively seeking to recruit terrorists.

None of the alogations against Griffin or Hamza were made against Irving. Whilst I may not agree with his view I respect his right to have them. Simply writing books claiming that gas chambers did not exist is just misguided. This sort of thing shoulf NEVER be a criminal offense.

 

[Dandyman]

AFA were a load of old wank mate. Having a go at a load of sad boneheads and bashing the odd pensioners. Well hard blokes my arse. Funny how they never touched the really nasty guys.

Must have been the British Rail guards they were running from at Waterloo, then ?

 

[coventrygull]

Must have been the British Rail guards they were running from at Waterloo, then ?

As I stated they just went after the boneheads. Wasn't the "battle of waterloo" prior to a blood and honour gig?

As I have stated before,what did AFA achieve? Absolutely nothing thats what. Similar to the ANL in the 70's they went around chasing the NF red herring instead of combating the tories and Thatcher got elected who then went around destroying any gains the working class had made.

Now we have the red tories aka Blair and his cronies who are now eroding our freedoms.

 

[Dandyman]

As I stated they just went after the boneheads. Wasn't the "battle of waterloo" prior to a blood and honour gig?

As I have stated before,what did AFA achieve? Absolutely nothing thats what. Similar to the ANL in the 70's they went around chasing the NF red herring instead of combating the tories and Thatcher got elected who then went around destroying any gains the working class had made.

Now we have the red tories aka Blair and his cronies who are now eroding our freedoms.

Actually agree with you regarding Thatcher and Blair and I don't have any brief for what degenerated into a SWP front. Disagree with you in so far as I do think the work that ANL/RAR did in the 70's denied the neo-nazis the space and credibility to spread their poison and that AFA, despite their faults, were right not to shy away from physical confrontation when it was needed.

 

[London Calling]

Sorry Looney - don't you think it relatively important that someone that the far right can hold up as an educated man has publicly renounced his views? It is important, because much of the far right literature is based around his books, and his literature is taken as "fact" by those groups. He is/was a respected man in those circles, and he has performed a complete volte-face.

When I was a member of the far right in my dim (very) and distant youth, he was almost heralded as the Messiah because of his views, and the simple fact that he was educated and published.

Not you Loony.

 

[enigma]

Wriggling? OK, So do you think Scottish Immigration to Ulster has been a success? I take it you must approve.


I wonder if you'll wriggle of again after Ive asked this question for the 4th yime.

Why don't you answer Hampshires question ?

 

[London Calling]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by coventrygull
As I stated they just went after the boneheads. Wasn't the "battle of waterloo" prior to a blood and honour gig?

As I have stated before,what did AFA achieve? Absolutely nothing thats what. Similar to the ANL in the 70's they went around chasing the NF red herring instead of combating the tories and Thatcher got elected who then went around destroying any gains the working class had made.

Now we have the red tories aka Blair and his cronies who are now eroding our freedoms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Actually agree with you regarding Thatcher and Blair and I don't have any brief for what degenerated into a SWP front. Disagree with you in so far as I do think the work that ANL/RAR did in the 70's denied the neo-nazis the space and credibility to spread their poison and that AFA, despite their faults, were right not to shy away from physical confrontation when it was needed.






THE ANL/RAR achieved a lot from organising artists and selling a mass message and developing a collective voice. From this initial work developed the Policeman Ball, Mandela concerts and Live Aid....................

 

[Richard Whiteley]

Wriggling? OK, So do you think Scottish Immigration to Ulster has been a success? I take it you must approve.


I wonder if you'll wriggle of again after Ive asked this question for the 4th yime.

shush now Looney, I was enjoying the adult's conversation

 

[coventrygull]

Actually agree with you regarding Thatcher and Blair and I don't have any brief for what degenerated into a SWP front. Disagree with you in so far as I do think the work that ANL/RAR did in the 70's denied the neo-nazis the space and credibility to spread their poison and that AFA, despite their faults, were right not to shy away from physical confrontation when it was needed.

I think it was Thatchers anti immigration stance that stoped the NF in its tracks not the ANL/RAC.

As fro AFA physical confrontation methods all that has done is make the BNP look at its self and change to look more electable. At the end of the day most of AFA confrontation was between them and Blood and Honour/ C18.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

The ANL did nothing to the Right Wing (speaking as someone who was well within the Right Wing at the time!). The Right Wing imploded in power struggles, divisions, and actually the efforts of the Blue Rinse Nazi herself with her change of approach at the polling stations (made right wing policy part of her own, sucked a lot of potential votes back to her own party). However, the ANL did have the better looking girls....but no, to be honest the ANL were nothing more than a distraction.

 

[Brovion]

The ANL did nothing to the Right Wing (speaking as someone who was well within the Right Wing at the time!). The Right Wing imploded in power struggles, divisions, and actually the efforts of the Blue Rinse Nazi herself with her change of approach at the polling stations (made right wing policy part of her own, sucked a lot of potential votes back to her own party). However, the ANL did have the better looking girls....but no, to be honest the ANL were nothing more than a distraction.

Power struggles and divisons characterised the left wing as well. Look at any by-election and you'll see a mutually antagonistic group of flat-earth, dinasoaur, Socialist parties with two things in common - politically they're rooted in the mid-19th century (although some revisionist and/or modernist ones may have got as far as the 1970s) and they're all led by people who are 100% convinced they're right which is why they've split off from the other groups.

AFA was always more than an anti-Nazi group. As Dandyman says it was about denying the far-right a platform - if people wanted to preach hate you couldn't just go 'tch' and walk on by. But it was also a working class, anti-Tory movement, it had its faults but its heart was in the right place and I'm proud of my (limited) involvment with it.

PS - Agree with the general consensus on 'Searchlight' but again it's heart is in the right place. 'Fighting Talk' was a far better publication, but then I'm biased.

 

[coventrygull]

Power struggles and divisons characterised the left wing as well. Look at any by-election and you'll see a mutually antagonistic group of flat-earth, dinasoaur, Socialist parties with two things in common - politically they're rooted in the mid-19th century (although some revisionist and/or modernist ones may have got as far as the 1970s) and they're all led by people who are 100% convinced they're right which is why they've split off from the other groups.

AFA was always more than an anti-Nazi group. As Dandyman says it was about denying the far-right a platform - if people wanted to preach hate you couldn't just go 'tch' and walk on by. But it was also a working class, anti-Tory movement, it had its faults but its heart was in the right place and I'm proud of my (limited) involvment with it.

PS - Agree with the general consensus on 'Searchlight' but again it's heart is in the right place. 'Fighting Talk' was a far better publication, but then I'm biased.

No one would denie that AFA heart was in the right place. What I am arguing how really effective was it.

As for searchlights heart being in the right place. Wasn't it accused of passing on information to M15 about fellow lefties.

 

[Brovion]

.... As for searchlights heart being in the right place. Wasn't it accused of passing on information to M15 about fellow lefties.

Actually, I think it was. I KNEW there was a reason we didn't like it!

Going back to the 'how effective was AFA', I suppose it depends on how you look at it. It certainly did not succeed in defeating the far-right which is probably as strong as it's ever been. However if people can say that the Tories' greatest achievement was in creating the modern Labour Party (which had to change to get itself elected) then you could argue that AFA's greatest achievement was forcing the far-right off the steets and getting it to contentrate on the political process. Do they have a right to campaign peacefully? That's a different arguement .....

 

[coventrygull]

Actually, I think it was. I KNEW there was a reason we didn't like it!

Going back to the 'how effective was AFA', I suppose it depends on how you look at it. It certainly did not succeed in defeating the far-right which is probably as strong as it's ever been. However if people can say that the Tories' greatest achievement was in creating the modern Labour Party (which had to change to get itself elected) then you could argue that AFA's greatest achievement was forcing the far-right off the steets and getting it to contentrate on the political process. Do they have a right to campaign peacefully? That's a different arguement .....

You have a point Brovian but it wasn't just the actions of the AFA that caused this. As I said most of AFA's battles were with Blood and Honour/ C18 hardly people that were interested with the electoral process. Hate to add that Blood and Honour are still going strong.

The trouble with violent tactics is that a lot of the time you just attract people who are just looking for a ruck. The politics come second and the truth is lost in a lot of bragging. As I have said I have read "No retreat" and it was a piss poor read.

Sometimes I think if you want a revolutionary situation you have to let things develop. Sit tight then act.