National Anthem

[Buzzer]

However the actual lyrics to Jerusalem have little to do with the middle east.

He's right you know. Written by William Blake, painter poet, genius, madman it symbolised his non-conformist belief that England was the new Jerusalem where God and the Devil really did battle for the souls of man. A follower of the mystic and philosopher and freemason, William Swedenborg he also believed that the Holy Grail was brought to England by Joseph of Arimathea. Incidentally, there is a Sussex connection. The poem was written whilst he was on holiday near Bognor (the tune added later). A place where he was arrested for chucking a drunk soldier out of his garden for singing jingoistic songs. Blake hated the blind patriotism of the English at the time. Oh, the irony.

He once fled his house after seeing the Devil at the tops of his stairs. The man was the perfect embodiment of creative genius/madness. The nearest living equivalent, in my opinion, is Daniel Johnson.

edit - yes, I really ought to get out more. (I'm quite good at pub quizzes you know?)

 

[Pavilionaire]

Wise words. I'm happy with the Queen, William and even Charles. They are BORN leaders, trained from birth to assert natural British superiority. Politicians are little more than power-hungry, self-serving, sleazy ego-maniacs.

 

[Gully]

edna is right, there are plenty of anthems better than ours, look at the passion in the Italians when they sing theirs...the South African anthem in three different languages is far better...ours is a dirge, we need something that makes us proud to be singing it...not like we were at a funeral, no wonder our national teams struggle at times.

Oh, and I should add that I am a Royalist.

 

[The Large One]

What is so bad about the Queen and the Royal Family? The notion of President Blair is both frightening and depressing in equal measure. Then what the f*** would we sing?

A real lack of viable alternatives coming through on this thread from all those anti-royalists.

It's fuel to the anti-monarchists, admittedly, but the point is, where's the patriotism in the song? Nowhere is any reference made to our country. The national anthem shouldn't have anything to do with the head of state, whoever it is, but rather, the state itself.

It's the only national anthem in the world which refers to, and is about, one person. I also think it's the only national anthem that makes no reference to any country (but that might need checking), other than one which is reigned over by one person, and there's certainly no mention of it.

'Jerusalem' isn't about so much a glorification of England, more a wishful desire to make it a better place, which, if adopted, would also make it unusual amongst national anthems.

 

[Mr Blobby]

I agree. Any national anthem should be there to stir the emotional patriotic juices - it's what it's there for.

Except for 'God Save The Queen' - which doesn't because it's total shit. That's the issue.

When you are at an England game and you have 80,000 singing it at Wembley it does work!

Also in matches like the recent world cup games in Germany, 25,000 England fans singing it at full volume does stir the emotions.

Its all these boring lefties, republicans too busy moaning about it whilst drinking German/Belgium lager or more probably Pimms in there local pub that are the problem! They dare now show pride and passion because that is probably un pC these days, lets be middle of the road and unpatriotic because hey it looks cool to my mates!

 

[Woodchip]

Wise words. I'm happy with the Queen, William and even Charles. They are BORN leaders, trained from birth to assert natural British superiority. Politicians are little more than power-hungry, self-serving, sleazy ego-maniacs.

Sums it up nicely though.

 

[The Large One]

When you are at an England game and you have 80,000 singing it at Wembley it does work!

Also in matches like the recent world cup games in Germany, 25,000 England fans singing it at full volume does stir the emotions.

Its all these boring lefties, republicans too busy moaning about it whilst drinking German/Belgium lager or more probably Pimms in there local pub that are the problem! They dare now show pride and passion because that is probably un pC these days, lets be middle of the road and unpatriotic because hey it looks cool to my mates!

I was kind of with you until the 'PC' bit.

What has 'being PC' (whatever that means - depsite asking many, many times, no-one has told me what it means), 'republican' or 'boring lefties' got to do with not supporting England? And how is it 'cool'?

 

[The Large One]

Wise words. I'm happy with the Queen, William and even Charles. They are BORN leaders, trained from birth to assert natural British superiority.

Really? But they're of German stock.

 

[Buzzer]

Really? But they're of German stock.

so are the English.

 

[Woodchip]

There is no such thing as English, with the various invasions we have faced in our time we are very mix-nationality (French, German, Norsk, etc..).

My opinion anyway. Still reckon we should have our own national anthem though. Maybe Mark and Lard could write one for us.

 

[Uncle Buck]

There is no such thing as English, with the various invasions we have faced in our time we are very mix-nationality (French, German, Norsk, etc..).

My opinion anyway. Still reckon we should have our own national anthem though. Maybe Mark and Lard could write one for us.

The last invasion was 1066.

 

[The Large One]

so are the English.

But he said British. He's only counting the English.

 

[Icy Gull]

Really? But they're of German stock.

It's over 60 years, you really should be over it We're all Europeans now!

 

[The Large One]

The last invasion was 1066.

You what?

 

[Mr Blobby]

I was kind of with you until the 'PC' bit.

What has 'being PC' (whatever that means - depsite asking many, many times, no-one has told me what it means), 'republican' or 'boring lefties' got to do with not supporting England? And how is it 'cool'?

Being proud to be English ALWAYS get linked to being a racist or a xenophobe. To be politically correct you have to put everyother country and their beliefs way above being English, British or whatever you want to call it, that comes way down the list, perhaps even excluded altogether.

I know a lot of the "new" england fans and they are the ones who vote labour, are vegetarian, like the Smiths and want a new anthem to replace our national anthem! When they all get together they think they are the people that know best and they are the true "English" people, not these horid patriotic proud passionate "oiks"!

On the other hand lets go with Billy Connolly and replace God Save the Queen with the Archers theme tune!!!!

 

[Woodchip]

The last invasion was 1066.

And? We're still of mixed nationality, you dirty foreigner.

 

[Uncle Buck]

You what?

The last time this island was forseably invaded was 1066.

All other ruling families that have taken the throne have either been invited here by Parliament (William of Orange) or have got it via end of family lines etc.

 

[Uncle Buck]

And? We're still of mixed nationality, you dirty foreigner.

I know that, but that is down to immigration not invasion.

Tracing my family tree back I suspect would make interesting reading, like many others.

 

[Buzzer]

There is no such thing as English, with the various invasions we have faced in our time we are very mix-nationality (French, German, Norsk, etc..).

My opinion anyway. Still reckon we should have our own national anthem though. Maybe Mark and Lard could write one for us.

Not strictly true. Yes, we've had lots of invaders but the Anglo-Saxons carried out genocide on the south and midlands and co-existed with Norse invaders on the east and north (The norse being of Germanic descent themselves). The celts were pushed to the southwest and wales and scotland. The French invaders from 1066 were firmly rooted in the aristocracy and left the common man untouched. Don't forget that the Normans were effectively norse/saxon too - hence William's claim to the throne. It's all in the blood types and place names apparently.

 

[The Large One]

There is no such thing as English, with the various invasions we have faced in our time we are very mix-nationality (French, German, Norsk, etc..).

You are talking about races who came from places we now know as being France, Germany, Norway etc.

The Anglo-Saxons as we understood the term were made ostensibly from three tribes, the Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes. They held large swathes of what we know called southern England and the midlands from the 5th century until the mid 11th century. The are we live in was primarily held by the Saxons - hence the name Sussex.