MP stabbed in Yorkshire. ***RIP Jo Cox***

[spring hall convert]

of course I understand , does it really matter to you whether its in the media or its happening at an event endorsed and fronted by the mayor of london ?

I think there's a big difference personally. Did you think Goldsmith's article in the Sun was right?

 

[spring hall convert]

Let's not go with 'evil' as well. That's a cop out. It's just a word people use to stop them from having to think possibilities, decisions and motivations that are open to all of us.

And if we are to accept that this was an 'evil' act it's timing and target were a massive coincidence.

 

[Postman Pat]

Just wanted to say how brilliantly the last leg handled this last night. They were clearly shocked by the whole thing, but dealt with the subject, and Orlando shootings so well.

 

[FREDBINNEY]

All of a sudden you're interested in Shami Chakrabarti's opinion! Didn't have you down as a fan of hers.

Not saying that there aren't some specific, regional issues at local level for the Labour Party to resolve (indeed this has been acknowledged as something that needs to be worked on and sorted) but being a Muslim of Pakistani heritage doesn't seem to have done the the female Labour winner of the Tooting by-election this week Rosena Allin-Khan too much harm in her political career to date.

But I don't see how this is the same as Zac Goldsmith implying on a full page on page 5 of The Sun that if you voted for Sadiq Khan, you were approving terrorism. That's what the post you quoted was a response to.

If Londoners are to take Goldsmith at his word then they must now believe that the current elected London mayor is a personal danger to them. Do you see how that narrative could possibly lead to a place where a mentally ill fascist can kill their elected representative and think it's a justifiable action?

Or are you implying that it is a justfiable action? I take it you agree with that Goldsmith article.

Goldsmith wasnt that far wrong, its very conveniently forgotten just bwho khan has shared a platform with.

 

[Albumen]

Nice try. Plenty are insinuating

Linking a murderer with all the people voting leave? I'd be surprised if anyone has said that.

 

[spring hall convert]

Quite. Politics has become poisonous but we have the politicians we deserve. Look at the extreme positions and language used on NSC and elsewhere on the internet. Reasoned debate happens but then is soon overtaken by personality destruction. Cameron gets called 'Dodgy Dave', Corbyn is attacked mercilessly about irrelevance, Hunt and Gove are spoken about as though they are criminal masterminds. The tragic murder of the MP is nothing to do with the issues of the Referendum in exactly the same way as people who were against the bombing of Syria are not responsible for the attack on the MP at that time. However if politics continues to involve personality attacks then we may have to expect more physical attacks on MPs in the future.

Exactly.

It's easy to forget that not everyone has the intellectual capacity and awareness to take their news from a broad variety of sources, recognise and acknowledge bias without immediately discounting the source. Irresponsibly, the referendum debate has made an overly polarised situation in the country much worse but talking in absolutes and stoking up fear (both sides.)

If everyone takes a step back from this referendum, it really doesn't matter as much as everyone seems to think it does. We'll wake up the next day hopefully and the things that really matter to all of us will be the same. Sure, most of us have a preference but none of us know the right answer.

 

[Steve in Japan]

The point is I haven't concluded. I'm saying that it is possible that the current political climate could have created a scenario whereby someone could do this and feel justified in their actions. I think that's a reasonable position to hold.

I sort of get that. But allocating blame to the atmosphere generated by the Brexit campaign, as the Guardian has? You might as well blame Cameron for calling the referendum.

 

[Hampster Gull]

However the fact that people /posters on here are connecting all voters that want to Leave the EU with this Evil man are in my opinion using the death of Jo Cox for political gain. Shame on you.

Who is doing this. You are watching shadows.

 

[Hampster Gull]

In court he gives his name as ‘Death to Traitors, Freedom for Britain’ and his victim was a high profile ‘remain’ campaigner. It’s pretty obvious that in his mind this is linked to the referendum. This does not mean for one second that the Brexit leaders knowingly inspired this action and it shouldn’t actually change anyone’s vote as the arguments on both sides remain the same. However to say that no connection exists is a bit like saying that someone shouting ‘Allah Akhbar’ before opening fire on innocent people is not motivated by an interpretation/distortion of Islam, an argument I always find ridiculous.

Indeed. Will be lost on many with the blinkers on

 

[spring hall convert]

He is a mentally ill man. He has also attached himself to far right comments/groups.
However the fact that people /posters on here are connecting all voters that want to Leave the EU with this Evil man are in my opinion using the death of Jo Cox for political gain. Shame on you. For your information I shall be still voting to Leave not because I'm a Racist. Not because I'm a xenophobe but because I genuinely believe this country will prosper outside this failing organisation. Yes if we vote to Leave there we be tough decisions to be made and there will probably be tough times ahead. These tough times will be orchestrated by the powers that be punishing us for daring to go against them.
However do not tar me or others for simply wanting the U.K. to be able to prosper on it's own. I believe within a few years of leaving we will be better off but do not ever call me a Racist.

With one exception, I don't think anyone on this thread has actually done that. I agree it's crass, classless and most importantly factually wrong. Of course he wasn't directly inspired by the Leave campaign to murder her, it should go without saying.

What is being said and the referendum in general is part of this, that the last few months have seen a political polarisation that could have created a climate where someone reading and taking mainstream press sources in this country literally could conceivably feel justified in actions like this. I don't think this is disingenuous. I also think it's an important thing to acknowledge because it needs to stop. We need a far more adult debate going forward.

 

[melias shoes]

With one exception, I don't think anyone on this thread has actually done that. I agree it's crass, classless and most importantly factually wrong. Of course he wasn't directly inspired by the Leave campaign to murder her, it should go without saying.

What is being said and the referendum in general is part of this, that the last few months have seen a political polarisation that could have created a climate where someone reading and taking mainstream press sources in this country literally could conceivably feel justified in actions like this. I don't think this is disingenuous. I also think it's an important thing to acknowledge because it needs to stop. We need a far more adult debate going forward.

At last a sensible reply. I actually said to a colleague last week I can see this getting nasty. Never in my wildest nightmares did I expect That to happen. Just dreadful.

 

[wellquickwoody]

He is a mentally ill man. He has also attached himself to far right comments/groups.
However the fact that people /posters on here are connecting all voters that want to Leave the EU with this Evil man are in my opinion using the death of Jo Cox for political gain. Shame on you. For your information I shall be still voting to Leave not because I'm a Racist. Not because I'm a xenophobe but because I genuinely believe this country will prosper outside this failing organisation. Yes if we vote to Leave there we be tough decisions to be made and there will probably be tough times ahead. These tough times will be orchestrated by the powers that be punishing us for daring to go against them.
However do not tar me or others for simply wanting the U.K. to be able to prosper on it's own. I believe within a few years of leaving we will be better off but do not ever call me a Racist.

Respect, from a Remain voter, and one of NSC's Tory bigots, apparently.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

This thread does few people any favours. I find the argument that emotional launguage on the leave side caused the issue is as solid an argument as Gareth Southgate creating the Trafalgar square rioting after missing his penalty in Euro 96.

Irony of this is that the values of Jo Cox are the polar opposite of those being expressed here. Find another thread for the Guardian readers to bore us all to death with their faux intellectual superiority and the right to blame their woes on foreigners unless they happen to play for the Albion.

 

[wellquickwoody]

At last a sensible reply. I actually said to a colleague last week I can see this getting nasty. Never in my wildest nightmares did I expect That to happen. Just dreadful.

Spot on. I made the same kind of remark to my colleagues and family, I even said how much I was enjoying seeing people actively debate the politics of the day, rather than just ignoring it or saying that all politicians are the same etc etc.. Not for one minute did I expect this kind of sxxt to happen.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Really , you actually cant see the segregation between the sexes ?

That's their culture. It takes time to adjust & forcing change isn't going to help. It will happen with tolerance & the following generations.

 

[El Presidente]

My view is this thread should have been a respectful tribute to an obviously committed and caring MP which was derailed by comments obviously intended to make political capital and score points about the referendum.

Well said JC.

Jo Cox RIP.

By all accounts a committed, compassionate, caring woman who wanted to make the world a better place.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[soistes]

In court he gives his name as ‘Death to Traitors, Freedom for Britain’ and his victim was a high profile ‘remain’ campaigner. It’s pretty obvious that in his mind this is linked to the referendum. This does not mean for one second that the Brexit leaders knowingly inspired this action and it shouldn’t actually change anyone’s vote as the arguments on both sides remain the same. However to say that no connection exists is a bit like saying that someone shouting ‘Allah Akhbar’ before opening fire on innocent people is not motivated by an interpretation/distortion of Islam, an argument I always find ridiculous.

This just about sums it up for me. Succinctly and calmly too. Good post.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

There's clearly blokes on the right side. You need to look beyond the end of your nose. I'd extend that to life in general.

I don't think that is true. There is a mens section and a womens section and there is an overspill of men standing up. The suffragettes of the 20th century did not die for segregation at political meetings in the 21st. It is the responsibility of the progressive Left to stand up for the principles of the Suffragettes without being scared about accidentally being allied to the political Right. Much like the referendum in my opinion. Anyway this is off topic for this thread and I wont make any further comment.

 

[1901Phil]

I am reminded of the cartoon in The Times.
Trump & Farage in a bar with Farage saying to Trump "what's your poison "

 

[spring hall convert]

I sort of get that. But allocating blame to the atmosphere generated by the Brexit campaign, as the Guardian has? You might as well blame Cameron for calling the referendum.

Is this what you are refering to?

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-an-attack-on-humanity-idealism-and-democracy

"We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world."